If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

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  • If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

    I'm just going to juxtapose these two and let you all decide for yourself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q72LWqCx3pc

    http://jezebel.com/teen-in-photo-hav...dnt-1679936938

  • #2
    Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

    So you think it's crossing a line to make a film that's actually connected to a real issue that faces young people today?

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    • #3
      Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

      Schindler's List crossed the line if we're thinking like that.

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      • #4
        Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

        Are you suggesting that shame, social media bullying, suicide, fear and revenge should not be explored in a teen horror flick? This trailer goes nowhere near the line established by the long-running TV series committed to exploit the hell out of rape victims for entertainment and profit -- Law & Order: SVU.

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        • #5
          Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

          Yes, because a schlock supernatural horror flick where a slut-shamed teen kills herself and becomes an evil ghost is definitely not going to exploit an epidemic of teen suicide for s--ts and giggles.

          Maybe the trailer is a bad cut. Maybe this is a serious film that takes on a serious issue. Or maybe a metric f--k-ton of teenagers are going to go see this movie like it's any other C- grade horror flick, a la Blumhouse Productions, and come out with "Oh damn! That s--t was crazy!" reactions and we'll all just be okay with that.

          Like I said, you're free to decide for yourself.

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          • #6
            Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

            Originally posted by Eric Boellner View Post
            Yes, because a schlock supernatural horror flick where a slut-shamed teen kills herself and becomes an evil ghost is definitely not going to exploit an epidemic of teen suicide for s--ts and giggles.
            The best horror movies are always about something real.

            Yeah, this is a real issue. The nexus of slut-shaming, sexual assault, and suicide is a HUGE problem. And you know what might help?

            Talking about it. Getting teenagers to think, "Oh, ****, maybe I should step in and intervene here, rather than snap picture and share it on instagram." Getting kids to have the emotional experience of "wow, I wish they had behaved better" BEFORE they are in a situation where they have to figure out, in the moment, and maybe not 100% sober, what the right thing to do is.

            I'd seen this trailer already, and I am way more excited about it than I am about most horror films. I think it has a chance to be great.

            It could also be terrible. That's always the risk when you aim high: if you miss, you miss by a lot.

            If this is done right - and the only review I've read of it suggests that it is - then it has a chance to actually reduce this behavior by engaging people in the conversation.

            The notion that because something is a supernatural horror film, it shouldn't approach real issues is abhorrent. I mean, Rosemary's Baby is one of the greatest horror films of all time, and I guess it's just a "schlock supernatural horror flick" but it's a far stronger and smarter feminist statement than (at least) 95% of the serious dramas made on the subject.

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            • #7
              Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

              Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
              The best horror movies are always about something real.

              Yeah, this is a real issue. The nexus of slut-shaming, sexual assault, and suicide is a HUGE problem. And you know what might help?

              Talking about it. Getting teenagers to think, "Oh, ****, maybe I should step in and intervene here, rather than snap picture and share it on instagram." Getting kids to have the emotional experience of "wow, I wish they had behaved better" BEFORE they are in a situation where they have to figure out, in the moment, and maybe not 100% sober, what the right thing to do is.

              I'd seen this trailer already, and I am way more excited about it than I am about most horror films. I think it has a chance to be great.

              It could also be terrible. That's always the risk when you aim high: if you miss, you miss by a lot.

              If this is done right - and the only review I've read of it suggests that it is - then it has a chance to actually reduce this behavior by engaging people in the conversation.

              The notion that because something is a supernatural horror film, it shouldn't approach real issues is abhorrent. I mean, Rosemary's Baby is one of the greatest horror films of all time, and I guess it's just a "schlock supernatural horror flick" but it's a far stronger and smarter feminist statement than (at least) 95% of the serious dramas made on the subject.
              I hope you're right. I really do.

              Have you ever seen Gaspar Noe's "Irreversible?" Some might call that B-movie schlock, or something like that, and it starts out that way. But for me, that film was an example of a film that can draw you in with some pretense of being an action movie, or a revenge fantasy or something, and then by the end you realize it was never about the revenge or the action at all, and it turned out to have been a very serious film about a very serious thing. I've never felt so sick to my stomach watching a film, and I'll never watch it again, nor can I say (because of a certain scene) that I loved it.

              But if Unfriended can achieve even half of what Irreversible achieved, then I'd consider that a success. Maybe I'm a doubting Thomas, but given its ad campaign and the fact that it's from Blumhouse and MTV (I didn't know this before I made my earlier post, but wasn't surprised honestly), I'll wait to hear from someone else before I go see it. I doubt I'll hear anything that will convince me, but I'd love to be surprised.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                I don't think a line's been crossed here. It's no different than any other revenge ghost story. If it brings light to a real issue in a way that gets people discussing it-- I think that's a good thing.

                If it forces a person, any person, to rethink or reconsider how their own actions could have been harmful to others, that's a plus.

                If a ton of teenagers, and others, go to see the film in droves, I'm good with that, too-- the filmmakers have a fiduciary responsibility to the film's investors.

                Some people will think about the real issue and others won't.

                By setting the story in the horror genre there are audience expectations from the start. Genre conventions to consider. I like this concept, because at first we identify with the victim, then identify with the perpetrators who become victims themselves.

                It's a revenge story that utilizes real social behaviors as a catalyst-- that's what movies do. Is it a sensitive issue? Of course. Does that mean we should shy away from stories that are based on the issue? I don't think so.

                A few popular movies with revenge themes:
                The Crow, The Brave One, Gladiator, Troy, Braveheart, Prisoners, Man on Fire, Payback, Law Abiding Citizen, Edge of Darkness, Nightmare on Elm Street, Carrie... the list goes on and on.
                "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                • #9
                  Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                  "Yes, because a schlock supernatural horror flick where a slut-shamed teen kills herself and becomes an evil ghost is definitely not going to exploit an epidemic of teen suicide for s--ts and giggles."

                  Every movie exploits something. In what way do you believe this movie is inferior? Or are you merely offended by the subject matter?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                    I don't think a line's been crossed here. It's no different than any other revenge ghost story. If it brings light to a real issue in a way that gets people discussing it-- I think that's a good thing.

                    If it forces a person, any person, to rethink or reconsider how their own actions could have been harmful to others, that's a plus.

                    If a ton of teenagers, and others, go to see the film in droves, I'm good with that, too-- the filmmakers have a fiduciary responsibility to the film's investors.

                    Some people will think about the real issue and others won't.

                    By setting the story in the horror genre there are audience expectations from the start. Genre conventions to consider. I like this concept, because at first we identify with the victim, then identify with the perpetrators who become victims themselves.

                    It's a revenge story that utilizes real social behaviors as a catalyst-- that's what movies do. Is it a sensitive issue? Of course. Does that mean we should shy away from stories that are based on the issue? I don't think so.

                    A few popular movies with revenge themes:
                    The Crow, The Brave One, Gladiator, Troy, Braveheart, Prisoners, Man on Fire, Payback, Law Abiding Citizen, Edge of Darkness, Nightmare on Elm Street, Carrie... the list goes on and on.
                    Carrie's a good example. B-movie horror? Yes. But underneath, it's a serious discussion about mistreatment. I've never seen a Blumhouse horror flick that was a serious discussion of anything. People go see those movies for cheap thrills, and if anything, I think this film will only numb people to the realities of this kind of situation, rather than make them think seriously about it.

                    It's like if Transformers 5 kicks off with the rape of Interchangeable Sex Object #4. Nobody is going to go see that and think "Damn, we should really talk about rape and how it affects people, and how prevalent it is in our society." Because Transformers movies don't discuss things, they provide mind-numbing entertainment.

                    That's what Blumhouse horror movies do.

                    You know, my "main project" for about 4 or 5 months was a revenge actioner along a similar line. I'd jotted the idea down way back before I took my responsibility as a writer seriously (you know, back when it was okay that women were f--k-puppets and rape was just a good way to motivate your badass hero to kill lots of people). Looking to work on an action script, I resuscitated the idea years later, changed the lead to a female. Rape and suicide factored into the script in certain ways, but the point of what I was trying to do was to REALLY talk about those subjects, not just use them as a hook.

                    I scrapped the project six months ago. I couldn't find a way to transcend the genre conventions and NOT exploit something that millions and millions of women have been subjected to. If someday in the future, I can go back to the script and reshape it as a drama, or somehow find a find a better angle on the subject matter, then good for me. Until that happens, I don't want to create something that contributes to an already massive pool of mindless revenge fantasies that use rape as a careless plot hook for an ultimately empty film.

                    Maybe the filmmakers of Unfriended found that angle. Maybe they didn't. Without it, they can make all the financial gain for their investors that they want. I'll be happy sitting this one out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                      Originally posted by anxt View Post
                      Every movie exploits something.
                      False. Next question.

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                      • #12
                        Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                        You use the word "exploit" a lot. I don't think you know what it means.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                          You seem to have a really negative opinion of Blumhouse, but I'm not quite sure why. They do something that's actually pretty awesome.

                          They're extremely hands-off. Their general thing is that if you are making the movie cheap enough, you can do what you want to do with it.

                          It's actually a really great place if you're a filmmaker who can work on a tight budget. You're not going to make a ton of money, but you're going to be able to make the film you want to make.

                          The thing about approaching subjects like this in a horror context is that you get an audience you can't get if you try to make a movie with the same message that's a serious drama. More people will go and see a movie like this than would go see a similarly-budgetted version of "The Accused" with similarly-recognizable names attached ... by orders of magnitude.

                          And maybe my optimism will be proven wrong. But where you see a "schlock horror flick" I see a formally-innovative film that's actually about something relevant to the lives of its target audience.

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                          • #14
                            Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                            Originally posted by anxt View Post
                            You use the word "exploit" a lot. I don't think you know what it means.
                            Thanks for the heads-up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: If there's an ethical line in filmmaking...

                              Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                              You seem to have a really negative opinion of Blumhouse, but I'm not quite sure why. They do something that's actually pretty awesome.

                              They're extremely hands-off. Their general thing is that if you are making the movie cheap enough, you can do what you want to do with it.

                              It's actually a really great place if you're a filmmaker who can work on a tight budget. You're not going to make a ton of money, but you're going to be able to make the film you want to make.

                              The thing about approaching subjects like this in a horror context is that you get an audience you can't get if you try to make a movie with the same message that's a serious drama. More people will go and see a movie like this than would go see a similarly-budgetted version of "The Accused" with similarly-recognizable names attached ... by orders of magnitude.

                              And maybe my optimism will be proven wrong. But where you see a "schlock horror flick" I see a formally-innovative film that's actually about something relevant to the lives of its target audience.
                              I actually like Jason Blum. The guy's producing resume is kind of astounding, and he seems like a very smart man.

                              But when it comes to horror, Blumhouse equates to cheap thrills, and that's what worries me.

                              I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully I'll have to eat my words.

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