The Equalizer - groan!

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  • #16
    Re: The Equalizer - groan!

    Maybe when they reboot this again in 20 years, they'll cast Zoe Saldana for the lead.

    Anyway, as I said, I liked the script; a fun read, substance and style. Even the one groan-worthy-because-it's-obvious-from-the-start little set-up and payoff was OK because it was cute. But I'm guessing they did a fair amount of rewriting (from the version I read) to make Chloe GM's part larger.

    And yeh, Denzel will nail it. No doubt.

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    • #17
      Re: The Equalizer - groan!

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      How many posts until someone mentions the nazis?
      One, apparently.
      Teach me a fact and I'll learn.
      Tell me the truth and I'll believe.
      Tell me a story and it will live in my heart forever.

      - Native American proverb -

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      • #18
        Re: The Equalizer - groan!

        I think the bigger issue here should be the fact that every female character is there solely to act as a victim (of beatings, rape, theft, etc) who needs to be saved by the aging bada** with a vengeance. So overall, there is absolutely nothing about this film that we haven't seen a million times before (even despite being based on an existing property), and this movie won't do anything for women other than put them down and abuse them (I've read the script, it ain't pretty).

        But the directing style is cool enough and the casting (Denzel and Chloe) is interesting enough to get me to see it, if nothing else.

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        • #19
          Re: The Equalizer - groan!

          Originally posted by Dean View Post
          One, apparently.
          Oops!

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          • #20
            Re: The Equalizer - groan!

            I call bulls**t on a lot of posts here. I wonder how people would react if they made someone like Blade a white person.

            In the case of Shaft, the race is important to the character. But the days of Blade being Shaft with stakes are long gone. It would not alter the context of the character, plot, story, nor characterization. What if they made Falcon from CA:TWS a white character?

            If that happened, would it not be considered racist? Either way, it simply wouldn't feel right.

            If we peel off all the details of the character that make said character, then the character becomes obsolete. Batman would be the same as Daredevil or Iron Man. Superman would be the same as Thor. Bourne would be the same as Bond. And so on.

            When it comes to The Equalizer and main character's name, they only kept the title. I understand Hollywood going for established properties, but if the properties are unrecognizable from the source material, then what's the point? Just slap some other title on DW's character.

            Haven't watched the movie, watched the trailer, read the script. Where are the timeless elements, the elements/details that make the character who he is?

            Where's the theme (as cool, memorable and important as Mission: Impossible's)?
            Where's the Jag?
            Where's Control?
            Where's the Brit accent?
            Where's Mickey?
            Where's Scott, his son?
            Where's the suit?

            It's like taking away MacGyver's super-improv abilities, and his Swiss Army Knife, and his distaste for guns, and the Phoenix Foundation, and Pete Thorton. Or having the car in Knight Rider not talk. Or not having Michael Westen burned in a movie called Burn Notice. Or having Sherlock Holmes without uber-deduction skills nor a sidekick called Watson, or a Doctor Who with a Texan accent. Heck, I'd find it a bit weird if Tony Stark didn't have his moustache and goatee (it would be like giving Superman one - again, wouldn't feel right).

            I'm okay with Watson being female in Elementary, because there are so many interpretations of the character all the time and across all mediums. So a Sherlock Holmes fan can watch Jeremy Brett, or Benedict Cumberbatch or Downey Jr. or Johnny Lee Miller, etc. That is not the case with Superman or The Equalizer or X-Men (unless they reboot it one way or another) - not on the same level as such a popular public domain character.

            One of the charms of the show, was having this upper class looking and sounding older British gentleman who would unleash hell's fury with his booming voice, who would suprise people with a snap of immediate rage and ass-kicking skills.

            DW looks like a badass from the get-go. The movie looks good, like Taxi Driver meets Taken.

            But it's not The Equalizer.
            Last edited by NotTheBard; 06-13-2014, 02:04 AM.

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            • #21
              Re: The Equalizer - groan!

              Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
              When it comes to The Equalizer and main character's name, they only kept the title. I understand Hollywood going for established properties, but if the properties are unrecognizable from the source material, then what's the point? Just slap some other title on DW's character.
              I can understand why people sometimes get up in arms over major changes made to a beloved TV character/show. But Hollywood makes changes all the time when it is adapting shows to movies. It has to, because movies are an expensive proposition and it wants to ensure maximum marketability. That applies to everything from the genre to the theme song.

              This is why when Hollywood is remaking something, what ultimately matters most is the basic concept. Anything after that is fair game for a change. That's why 21 Jump Street (another beloved 80s show) was changed from a crime drama to an action comedy for the feature version. Studio execs decided that today's audiences would not take the idea of cops working undercover in high school too seriously.

              As for your Blade example, it's quite possible that in the distant future Hollywood could decide to change his race. But the situation is more complicated when you are changing an established minority character to a white one, because there are so few established minority characters in various genres (including the superhero genre) to begin with. So, a greater outcry is almost to be expected.

              The Equalizer's basic concept is that a former government worker begins using his special skills to help others in need.

              To me, the most significant change is that they decided to turn the movie character from a former intelligence officer to a former Black Ops member, making him a badass from the get-go. I could understand if the original poster had a grievance with this, because it does represent a major shift from the nature of the character. But the main complaint in the OP's argument was that the character was changed from a white British guy to a black American.

              Did the fact that he was British on the TV show make him a bit more interesting? Yes. Does it ultimately matter to the story? No. Does the fact that he was white on the TV show matter to the story? Absolutely not. If the OP can come up with a single compelling argument for why those features needed to be retained for the movie, besides the fact that he/she was just more comfortable with The Equalizer being a white British character, I'd love to hear it.

              Frankly, I think a lot of the backlash you are seeing in response to the OP's comments are a result of the fact that in complaining about a black American replacing a white British person, he basically makes it seem like it is on the level of an alien replacing a human being. And forgive us if that came off as a tad bit prejudiced.
              "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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              • #22
                Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                So changing from white to black is okay, but not from black to white?

                Isn't that just as racist?

                Just because a character is white, that doesn't automatically make me identify with the character or like the character better than a black one.

                People focused on the OP's change of race comment and neglected most of the comment, like 90% of it.

                What about the other stuff that the OP moaned about, and with which I totally agree.

                Take the movie and call it something else. The trailer just looks like Taxi Driver meets Taken. You don't need The Equalizer's title and name to do that.

                Why didn't DW just at least put on a Brit accent? Let himself get a gray-haired look, to look less badass, pull a Brit accent even if it was a bad one, like he did back in 88?

                It's ironic that so many people pounce on a single person, to insult and accuse said person of something awful, while behaving so awfuly themselves.

                The OP's frustration is in regards of the total disregard for the character and the use made of it. The changing of skin color being just one point. I think the OP, like myself, would at least liked to have heard a Brit accent, as most of the OP's post refers many aspects of the original show that have been neglected.
                Last edited by NotTheBard; 06-13-2014, 07:48 AM.

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                • #23
                  Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                  Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                  So changing from white to black is okay, but not from black to white?

                  Isn't that just as racist?
                  That's not what I said at all. I never said anything about whether it is "okay". You are completely simplifying my statement.

                  I said that it is definitely possible for an established minority character to be changed to a white character. It's just that people are more likely to complain about that due to the astounding lack of established minority characters on screen. In the same vein, there would be more of an outcry if you took an established female character like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Veronica Mars and made them men, than there would be if you took a male character like Jack Bauer or Castle and made them women. Why? Because there are so few strong female lead characters like Buffy and Veronica on TV.

                  Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                  People focused on the OP's change of race comment and neglected most of the comment, like 90% of it.
                  Maybe you need to go back and take a look at the OP's post. It's pretty clear that most of the argument's anger stemmed from the race switch.

                  Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                  What about the other stuff that the OP moaned about, and with which I totally agree.....Why didn't DW just at least put on a Brit accent? Let himself get a gray-haired look, to look less badass, pull a Brit accent even if it was a bad one, like he did back in 88?
                  Like I said, Hollywood changes things to make them more marketable, like the theme song, which frankly has a cheesy 80s feel. And like I said, the Equalizer's being British and old was not integral to the story. Just that he is now a civilian who possesses special skills due to his background. You're just repeating yourself at this point by complaining about this aspect.


                  Wow, it's amazing how upset people are getting about this. You'd think Denzel went to Edward Woodward's grave, dug up his body, and stabbed it a thousand times while shouting "I am the new Equalizer!!!" Seriously, chill out already.
                  Last edited by UpandComing; 06-13-2014, 08:17 AM.
                  "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                    Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                    So changing from white to black is okay, but not from black to white?

                    Isn't that just as racist?
                    Do you think there are more white protagonists in Hollywood movies or black protagonists? Do you think one group might be underrepresented while another might be overrepresented?

                    Hollywood plays loose and fast with properties all the time. That's just the nature of the game. Adaptations and remakes don't change the source material. It's okay, you still have your old white Equalizer. He's still there. This is a new interpretation.


                    I hope we get a black James Bond eventually, too.
                    Ring-a-ding-ding, baby.

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                      Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
                      Wow, it's amazing how upset people are getting about this. You'd think Denzel went to Edward Woodward's grave, dug up his body, and stabbed it a thousand times while shouting "I am the new Equalizer!!!" Seriously, chill out already.
                      The other points you bring up, I've already addressed them in my previous posts.

                      Concerning the OP's post, nope, not what I see written at all. Simply someone who's disapointed with the changes made.

                      The OP does mention the character's change of race, along with the lack of the Brit accent, the lack of the source's tone/feel, theme song, etc.

                      And to spit on a character is indeed, many times, to spit on the people who worked on the character, be it The Equalizer or whatever character there is.

                      It's Woodward's most memorable and recognized role. As to the theme, they could have kept the timeless rythm and use different intruments, as they've done many times with Mission: Impossible.

                      We all know what they say about opinions. This happens to be mine.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                        Originally posted by NoirDigits View Post
                        Do you think there are more white protagonists in Hollywood movies or black protagonists? Do you think one group might be underrepresented while another might be overrepresented?

                        Hollywood plays loose and fast with properties all the time. That's just the nature of the game. Adaptations and remakes don't change the source material. It's okay, you still have your old white Equalizer. He's still there. This is a new interpretation.

                        I hope we get a black James Bond eventually, too.
                        If we consider what's fashionable at the home in Hollywood right now, most of us might as well, set our work aisde and pack our bags, considering the overwhelming amount of derivative stuff Hollwyood's been spouting, with too few diamonds among all the coal.

                        Does the new mostly entertaining but completely disposable Mission: Impossible franchise not affect the original? Yes it does. If a book adaptation tanks, people won't run out to buy it. They'll assume it's crap because the film was crap.

                        If it's about black people being underrepresented, then by all means, change certain characters' races and sometimes sexes (didn't help Man of Steel though) in certain secondary characters. No need to shoehorn a character's race or whatever out of the left field changes just for the sake of it.

                        And by all means, let's have a Blade reboot - with a black actor, not a white or Asian one. Snipes' way of doing it lacked personality.
                        Let's have a Luke Cage movie.
                        Let's have a Black Panther movie.
                        Let's have a Shadowman movie.
                        Let's have other, better Alex Cross movies.
                        Let's have remakes of The Last Dragon, Dolemite and Cleopatra Jones.
                        Let's have a remake of M.A.N.T.I.S. (in spite of all the cheese, still a fun show).
                        Let's have a biopic of Shaka Zulu kicking coloniast ass.
                        Let's have more Luther seasons.
                        Let's have a Storm standalone X-Men movie.
                        Let's have a reboot of Spawn.
                        A sequel to Hancock.
                        A sequel to After Earth.
                        A sequel to the Karate Kid remake.
                        Let's have a Meteor Man remake.
                        Let's have a Steel reboot.
                        Let's have a Cyborg movie.

                        Aren't the main characters in Rogue, Betrayal, Hawthorne and Scandal, not only black, but black women at that?

                        Otherwise, if fans of the sources can simply go back and watch the originals, then anyone feeling underrepresented can go back and simply watch In the Heat of the Night, The Wire, A Man Called Hawk, Deep Space Nine, the whole Shaft series, etc.

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                        • #27
                          Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                          Yeah, race is just one small item on the laundry list of problems the OP has with this reboot. Which is why he mentioned race first. And put "white, British" in bold. And mentioned race again in the second paragraph. And used the disclaimer "not trying to be racist but..."

                          All that was really meant to convey his deep and abiding love for the sacred theme song.

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                          • #28
                            Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                            What's wrong about an update, a revision, a reboot, a re-imagining, whatever you want to call it?

                            A talented actor like Denzel wants to make this movie. What do you tell him? Sorry, Mr. Washington, but the character is supposed to be white? Do you ask him to bleach his hair and wear white makeup?

                            Or you do the sensible thing and give him the role, because there's no reason why it can't be played as a black character.

                            Probably I shouldn't mention my hopes that they'll someday make a Magnum P. I. movie with Will Smith as Thomas Magnum and some attractive, mature actress as Higgins. A black Magnum ... a female Higgins ... Blasphemy!

                            Visit this thread for more of the same: http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ad.php?t=69733

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                            • #29
                              Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                              Originally posted by bmcthomas View Post
                              Yeah, race is just one small item on the laundry list of problems the OP has with this reboot. Which is why he mentioned race first. And put "white, British" in bold. And mentioned race again in the second paragraph. And used the disclaimer "not trying to be racist but..."

                              All that was really meant to convey his deep and abiding love for the sacred theme song.
                              Yes to all of this.

                              From what I can tell from this thread, most of us were able to read exactly what sentiment was being expressed by the OP. And now a lot of people are speaking up to say that it's a racist sentiment, and this is not a welcoming message board for such opinions.

                              I assume the racism was unintentional, but it's clearly there. This is a learning opportunity, not a reason to dig in and defend ignorant views.

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                              • #30
                                Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                                Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                                And to spit on a character is indeed, many times, to spit on the people who worked on the character, be it The Equalizer or whatever character there is.
                                Wow. Just wow. So according to your logic, adaptations/remakes should be exactly like their TV sources, to the T -- no matter how long ago the source material was, or how much society has changed.

                                So according to you, for the following adaptations:

                                *Miami Vice - Should've stayed set in the 80s, man. That show was all about 80s style and fashion and culture.
                                *21 Jump Street - Should've stayed a crime drama, man. There's nothing funny about cops pretending to be high school students in order to catch drug-dealing kids.
                                *Star Trek - Young versions of Kirk, Spock, and the crew?! Are you kidding me?! No, they should've stayed their middle-aged selves. And Uhura should've kept her 60s hairstyle.
                                *The Flintstones - Should've stayed animated, man. And there's no way Halle Berry should've had a role, because there were no black people in the cartoon!
                                *The Fugitive - Tommy Lee Jones should not have been such a wise-ass. The character from the TV show he played, Gerard, was in no way like him. I don't care if he won an Academy Award!

                                According to you, practically everything should stay the same in order to ensure the "purity" of the source material. Especially when it comes to race. God forbid having a black actor play a white character, because they were meant to be white, Goddammit!! (eye roll)

                                Yeah, something tells me you won't be getting any adaptation/remake assignments in Hollywood.

                                Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                                Does the new mostly entertaining but completely disposable Mission: Impossible franchise not affect the original? Yes it does. If a book adaptation tanks, people won't run out to buy it. They'll assume it's crap because the film was crap.
                                Actually, no. Most people are smart enough to know that film adaptations/remakes deviate from their source material, and so therefore can't be trusted 100% as an accurate representation.
                                "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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