Backlash against the pros

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  • #61
    Re: Backlash against the pros

    Originally posted by mariot View Post
    I did ask in the myth thread. Derek posted his "little deaf girl" example and I asked if the quality of scripts he got from new writers was really that bad. He said yes.

    He had also posted in his misleading advice thread about the bad scripts he's been asked to read.

    I would love for the pros to explain how they arrive at the 1% figure but when I ask them something I run the risk of Todd Karate starting another thread about how we shouldn't ask anything that might be perceived as challenging them.

    I'm not jumping on you. I'm just curious as to how justification of that 1% serves you. Maybe it's 5% or 8%. Or even 20%. How does confirming this serve you? Or, me or any aspiring screenwriter, for that matter?
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #62
      Re: Backlash against the pros

      Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
      With respect to the moderators, let the conversation flow! That's what conversations do...

      Here's what I never understand about consultants and their secret projects. This town is built on hype, half-hype, and maybe hype. Projects in development are always mentioned in the trades as they come together. If you land financing and even have a d-list talent in the movie, it's there in the trades.

      Congrats on your own projects. Sincerely, I hope you get them made and they are blockbusters and critically-acclaimed. I'm friends with some of the guys at Legendary. What's the script? Also, who is the writer repped at CAA that you helped place there? Why wouldn't you want to shout about these things from the rooftops? You see objectively why I get sheepish about these things?

      I do disagree with BDZ. I think you can get where you want in Hollywood if you have talent and work hard without ever paying a consultant.
      Derek, I resent your implication that I'm anything but honest. I don't reveal all the details here for several reasons. For starters, I don't want clients coming to me with false hope that I'll make their movie or get them repped. They should come to me for good notes, anything else is a bonus.

      I'm also not going to name the client who's now with Martin Spencer at CAA. I protect clients' confidentiality.

      If you want to email me, I will happily provide more details. The thriller we just made has two B-list stars. When it's finished, I want the DD'er who wrote the movie to enjoy breaking the news about it here. The fact that you claim
      EVERY project gets announced should show writers that "pros" do not know everything. Even the star of the movie, when talking to the media about his last film, calls it his "secret movie."

      My Legendary project is The Lost Patrol. Stephen Norrington is rewriting and will direct.

      Like I said, you can email me for more information. Just quit implying I'm not legit or sincere. Cheers...

      Seriously, how did this turn into a bash Andrew thread?
      NOTES / COVERAGE
      15,000+ Screenplays
      [email protected]

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      • #63
        Re: Backlash against the pros

        Originally posted by mariot View Post
        I did ask in the myth thread. Derek posted his "little deaf girl" example and I asked if the quality of scripts he got from new writers was really that bad. He said yes.

        He had also posted in his misleading advice thread about the bad scripts he's been asked to read.

        I would love for the pros to explain how they arrive at the 1% figure but when I ask them something I run the risk of Todd Karate starting another thread about how we shouldn't ask anything that might be perceived as challenging them.
        You assumed this thread was about you?
        Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

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        • #64
          Re: Backlash against the pros

          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
          To defend Andrew: he charges writers the same thing he charges studios. 70 dollar coverage doesn't magically become 200 dollar coverage when it's for a newbie. If you want to know what one pro reader thinks, it's a fair service.
          I don't think Andrew needs defending. But it's nice of you to clarify.

          I posted that he has a good sense of story and what's commercial. I said his opinion was helpful and worth the fee.

          But, why use the phrase "consider with reservations" if it doesn't mean anything?

          If there is a "huge distinction" between "consider" and "consider with reservations" why do they seem kind of similar?

          And, those figures... they give a new writer very different pictures of how they are perceived in the industry.

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          • #65
            Re: Backlash against the pros

            Originally posted by Todd Karate View Post
            I don't understand the pushback some of the pros are getting on other threads on this site.

            I knew it wouldn't be long. In fact I was talking with a friend the other day and I mention I'm surprised no crazies have come out of the woodwork and ran off the pros who have recently came about -- I spoke too soon.

            That's just the way DD is. Argue until you're blue in the face -- or fingers, whatever.

            I'm not sure it's fair to attack Andrew in this thread. He means well and he's a super nice guy from what I've seen. Plus he got my friend his first pay day on a script so he's cool in my book. I can see why he doesn't want to name names out in the open, I don't either. Maybe PM would work better for that kind of stuff. People won't even say who they are repped by in the open much less anything else.

            Anyways, carry on. I typically stay out of anything remotely seriously. I'm just here for the good times

            EDIT: Well I see Andrew has defended himself (not that I thought you need it) That's what I get for taking so long to write a PM -- damn A.D.D
            Quack.

            Writer on a cable drama.

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            • #66
              Re: Backlash against the pros

              Originally posted by mariot View Post
              And, those figures... they give a new writer very different pictures of how they are perceived in the industry.
              I'm not sure I'm understanding you.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Backlash against the pros

                Originally posted by sarajb View Post
                You assumed this thread was about you?
                I was definitely one of several people who were asking our questions over and over because we just couldn't believe the answers we were getting.

                I wasn't arguing to argue but I can see how it could be frustrating for them.

                But, no, not just about me.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Backlash against the pros

                  Originally posted by ducky1288 View Post
                  People won't even say who they are repped by in the open much less anything else.
                  Why won't people say who they're repped by? Is it really that bad around here, that you can't even say who represents you, because some idiots will harass you and run you off, if it's an agent they had their eyes on?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Backlash against the pros

                    Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
                    Congrats on your own projects. Sincerely, I hope you get them made and they are blockbusters and critically-acclaimed. I'm friends with some of the guys at Legendary. What's the script? Also, who is the writer repped at CAA that you helped place there? Why wouldn't you want to shout about these things from the rooftops? You see objectively why I get sheepish about these things?

                    I do disagree with BDZ. I think you can get where you want in Hollywood if you have talent and work hard without ever paying a consultant.
                    Sure, there are lots of ways to break into the industry. But why do you object to a writer paying a professional reader a fee--the same fee the reader charges a studio--to get a take on his material?

                    Here's a personal example... I lived out of town, had no contacts in the industry, no representation, and didn't trust the results of contests. 70 bucks seemed like a very fair price to get an informed opinion on how my material stacked up to the stuff circulating in Hollywood. Andrew made no promises other than that he would read my script, but this fall I signed with a highly-respected manager--and subsequently an outstanding team of agents--directly because of his help.

                    I have no respect for the legion of poorly-qualified consultants who sell suckers the dream of Hollywood success (along with a book or two) and charge rates wildly at odds with their experience. But this isn't that. And I find it more than a bit ironic that in another thread you wondered why people argue about stuff they don't know anything about while you are doing exactly that on this subject.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Backlash against the pros

                      Originally posted by mariot View Post
                      I was definitely one of several people who were asking our questions over and over because we just couldn't believe the answers we were getting.

                      I wasn't arguing to argue but I can see how it could be frustrating for them.

                      But, no, not just about me.
                      Were you arguing or asking questions? I thought you were asking questions, but I guess you know better than me.

                      From what I remember reading, I would be surprised if this thread pertained to you, up until a couple of posts back, anyway.
                      Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Backlash against the pros

                        I paid Andrew for notes on one of my scripts back in August, I think, and I'll use his service again on future scripts. At no point did he promise or even suggest he'd produce my script, hook me up with an agent, or do anything but provide feedback. Nor did he promise that if I just follow his advice, my script would win the Nicholl, have agents falling all over each other to sign me, or spark a six-figure bidding war. He delivered exactly what he promised and exactly what I paid for - an outside opinion & advice on improving my script. Everything else is up to me.

                        I don't mind paying for notes because it gives me access to feedback and a sense of where I stand from within the industry I'd currently have a difficult time acquiring otherwise. I don't pay for notes because I expect it to impress anyone or open any doors - I just want to make my scripts better and learn to be a better screenwriter. That's what will open doors for me.
                        Patrick Sweeney

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                        • #72
                          Re: Backlash against the pros

                          Originally posted by EvilRbt View Post
                          Derek, I resent your implication that I'm anything but honest. I don't reveal all the details here for several reasons. For starters, I don't want clients coming to me with false hope that I'll make their movie or get them repped. They should come to me for good notes, anything else is a bonus.

                          I'm also not going to name the client who's now with Martin Spencer at CAA. I protect clients' confidentiality.

                          If you want to email me, I will happily provide more details. The thriller we just made has two B-list stars. When it's finished, I want the DD'er who wrote the movie to enjoy breaking the news about it here. The fact that you claim
                          EVERY project gets announced should show writers that "pros" do not know everything. Even the star of the movie, when talking to the media about his last film, calls it his "secret movie."

                          My Legendary project is The Lost Patrol. Stephen Norrington is rewriting and will direct.

                          Like I said, you can email me for more information. Just quit implying I'm not legit or sincere. Cheers...

                          Seriously, how did this turn into a bash Andrew thread?
                          Didn't mean for it to be, Andrew, and I hope you don't resent someone who is trying to get to the bottom of vague claims, like any good consumer should. I'm sure you would do the same thing with any service you would consider hiring. When I went to your site, I saw a list of 50+ blockbuster movies you covered in your days as a reader. This makes it appear to me like you had something to do with the success of those movies and/or writers, or why would you list all those? It just caught me as being disingenuous. Then when I hear vague references on top of that, I grew skeptical. This is a natural reaction... please don't fault me for it. There are a TON of services like yours that are, in my professional opinion, crappy. I know we shouldn't let one bad apple spoil the bunch but there are orchards of bad apples out there.

                          Jeff says you offer a fair price at 70 bones and I like Jeff a lot. Now that you have your back up a bit, I do think you're honest but that you honestly promote an unnecessary service. Let me ask you this straight-up... I know Martin Spenser a bit... if I call Martin Spenser at CAA and say... "Hey, did Andrew help place a client with you?" will he say, "yes, he did. Andrew has my ear." If so, dude, I commend you and you might be the first I've ever heard of actually having the ear of a mover and shaker.

                          Congrats on the Stephen Norrington project... that'll be cool if that gets going. Legendary is a truly top-tier studio/producer and those guys are awesome over there.

                          And as for the secret movie... I sincerely look forward to seeing it.

                          Andrew... I'm pulling for your writing career. As far as the consulting business, I wouldn't say anything on here I wouldn't say over coffee with you so please don't get too resentful.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Backlash against the pros

                            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                            I'm not jumping on you. I'm just curious as to how justification of that 1% serves you. Maybe it's 5% or 8%. Or even 20%. How does confirming this serve you? Or, me or any aspiring screenwriter, for that matter?
                            Every person is different. This is how it affects me.

                            1%

                            No professional screenwriter wants to read the work of unknown writers because they assume it will suck.

                            Every time a studio/agency reader opens a script from an unknown they assume it will suck.

                            God, am I one of the delusional people who think they might one day have a real chance at making a living as a screenwriter?

                            Wait, if the 99% of bad scripts are bad because people are writing about little deaf girls and I don't write about little deaf girls maybe I really could be in that 1%.

                            Approximately 20%

                            Before knowing it was approximately 20%:

                            Wow, this guy reads a lot of scripts and look at all these positive things he has to say. I keep hearing how the majority of scripts by new writers suck. Doesn't sound like this guy thinks I suck. Maybe I could really have a shot at this career.

                            Wait, this seems too positive. Look at all these positive adjectives. Does this really mean anything or is this just sugar coating. Maybe everyone gets lots of positive adjectives so they don't get discouraged.

                            Wait, maybe I am really close, maybe it really does just need a little more work.

                            Wait, I think it needs a lot more work than he does. How can that be?

                            After knowing it was approximately 20%

                            ****, now I have no idea at all where this really stands. My script isn't one of the 1% that doesn't completely suck. 20% got some kind of consider. What were the other 80% like? Were they really, really bad scripts about little deaf girls?

                            Should I even be pursuing this as a profession?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Backlash against the pros

                              Couple things: 1) I am not offended or bothered. 2) Like Derek I came over here because I would have loved access to this kind of resource when I was starting out. Any advice I offer is based on my experience, observations and opinions. That's it. If it resonates, apply it. If not, go your own way.

                              The only central idea that I want to get across is this: calculate less. Find something that you really want to write about, that excites you, fascinates you, keeps you in its thrall. I still approach ALL originals that way. I never think about the market when I am deciding what to write. Only about the story I have to tell. And then I work it as hard and as passionately as I can. And that's the way I did it at the very beginning too. Really. I know this is counter to a ton of what you hear. But careers that last longest often start with much less calculation and much more heart.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Backlash against the pros

                                Originally posted by via negativa View Post
                                Why won't people say who they're repped by? Is it really that bad around here, that you can't even say who represents you, because some idiots will harass you and run you off, if it's an agent they had their eyes on?
                                Possibly. You ever see anyone post, "I'm repped by __________ at ________ agency/management company."

                                Let me know when you find one lol

                                I think it's more fear of someone judging who reps them. Like if you said you're repped by Mike Esola then people might PM you asking for his email. If you said you were repped by Joe Schmoe with no credits and a company that's not well known then people will call you out on it.
                                Quack.

                                Writer on a cable drama.

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