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Old 01-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #31
sarajb
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

You've got a grape tootsie pop stuck to your trousers.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

Sigh. I just don't get what the fuss is all about. Honestly, I disliked this movie and I'm really surprised it's garnering so much attention. Strictly from a screenwriting perspective, here's why I thought it was poor:

First, this movie had no heart or soul until the third act. I don't want to give anything away for those who have yet to see it, but up until Juno makes a wise decision when she is at the adoptive parent's home, this movie is devoid of any spirit and it didn't absorb me at all.

Second, the characters seemed like cardboard cutouts of people who happen to have a "funny" (???) or witty thing to say for everything. It's all about fancy, cool, hip dialogue and it comes across as more fake than a Tarantino flick. "Silencio, old man." "Homeskillet." "Thundercats, go!" I felt like the writer tried to throw in every retro, pop reference she could because that's what's "in" right now, and left out the subtext and the heart. They all sounded the same, and, to me, that is the sign of poor writing. The characters were not individuals, they were vehicles for the writer to be cool. I'm not saying movies always have to be a reflection on real life, but it needs to feel realistic. And I just don't think Juno or any other character was real. I saw Cloverfield just before this and I felt like the characters had more depth and dimension and feeling and they evoked more emotion in me than Juno.

Third, this movie worked way better as a drama than a comedy. Whatever was supposed to be considered funny wasn't. I didn't get in to the movie until the third act when the drama kicked in, because that's when it became real life, when the characters had feelings and emotions.

Fourth, Juno is not cool. She's not fun and she's not interesting and that's why she has only one friend in the movie. She can be rude and she can be annoying, and, worst of all, she comes across as superior to everyone even though she's pretty much a loser.

Fifth, from a realism perspective, would a wealthy couple be so desperate to have a baby that they would be willing to accept a baby from an irresponsible 16-year old girl? I would think an educated couple would be willing to adopt a kid from an educated gene pool. She's obviously not too smart to do it unprotected. She comes across as rude and careless and yet the couple seems so glad to take the baby off her hands. Maybe that's my lack of knowledge in the adoptive process, I don't know, but it didn't fit for me.

Sixth -- sloppy screenwriting. Via VO she says that Bleeker's vice is tic-tacs. Is it necessary to use a VO? Couldn't we just SEE Bleeker eating tic-tacs a few times and infer that? There were some unnecessary moments. Like some hamburger phone reference. Didn't get that. Wasted screentime.

I think the lady sitting next to me put it best: "This movie was weird. Those people were weird." And, in my opinion, she's right. It was weird. It's a movie that can be funny and tug at your heart, but it really didn't do either because you get occupied trying to understand what the heck these people are talking about. You try to find any thread of a human in these caricatures and you spend more time watching the movie than wrapping yourself in a story. It was a bumpy ride I wouldn't want to take again and I'm kind of disappointed that the Hollywood hype machine is pushing Cody as the next big thing just because she's an ex-stripper instead of promoting a film written by a talented screenwriter. I guess there's a reason for that.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:00 AM   #33
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

I can certainly accept that you didn't like the movie, just as easily as I can accept that others did and that it quite possibly had nothing to do with hype or stripping and instead maybe they just saw it differently from you.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:20 AM   #34
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Second, the characters seemed like cardboard cutouts of people who happen to have a "funny" (???) or witty thing to say for everything. It's all about fancy, cool, hip dialogue and it comes across as more fake than a Tarantino flick. "Silencio, old man." "Homeskillet." "Thundercats, go!" I felt like the writer tried to throw in every retro, pop reference she could because that's what's "in" right now, and left out the subtext and the heart. They all sounded the same, and, to me, that is the sign of poor writing. The characters were not individuals, they were vehicles for the writer to be cool. I'm not saying movies always have to be a reflection on real life, but it needs to feel realistic. And I just don't think Juno or any other character was real. I saw Cloverfield just before this and I felt like the characters had more depth and dimension and feeling and they evoked more emotion in me than Juno.
I agree somewhat. While watching the film, I was completely into it (after being briefly put off at the start in Rainn Wilson’s scene, even though he was funny as hell). But after the film was done and over with, there was this aftertaste that the movie just served as a vehicle for Diablo Cody to show us how retro-cool she was. She throws in a hamburger phone (which is actually hers), mentions the Thundercats (which, to my dismay, some teenagers had no idea what it was), and even brings up relatively obscure (read: not mainstream) horror filmmaker Dario Argento just to bash him. Yeah, that’s how cool she is. She brings up a guy who would actually give you cred as a film buff for just knowing who he is, only to put him down. So I do agree to an extent here, but I wouldn’t say everyone was the same character.
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Fourth, Juno is not cool. She's not fun and she's not interesting and that's why she has only one friend in the movie. She can be rude and she can be annoying, and, worst of all, she comes across as superior to everyone even though she's pretty much a loser.
I don’t think Juno was supposed to be cool. She even says it herself, she’s one of the weird, messed up chicks the cool guys always wanna hook up with. And sure, she can be rude and annoying but I honestly had no problem empathizing with her. I thought she was pretty interesting.
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I think the lady sitting next to me put it best: "This movie was weird. Those people were weird." And, in my opinion, she's right. It was weird. It's a movie that can be funny and tug at your heart, but it really didn't do either because you get occupied trying to understand what the heck these people are talking about. You try to find any thread of a human in these caricatures and you spend more time watching the movie than wrapping yourself in a story. It was a bumpy ride I wouldn't want to take again and I'm kind of disappointed that the Hollywood hype machine is pushing Cody as the next big thing just because she's an ex-stripper instead of promoting a film written by a talented screenwriter. I guess there's a reason for that.
Bottom line, it sounds like you just didn’t “get it.” But that’s fine, different movies for different people. I enjoyed the ride and had no problem immersing myself in the story.
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sloppy screenwriting. Via VO she says that Bleeker's vice is tic-tacs. Is it necessary to use a VO? Couldn't we just SEE Bleeker eating tic-tacs a few times and infer that? There were some unnecessary moments. Like some hamburger phone reference. Didn't get that. Wasted screentime.
I think you’re getting a liiiiittle too picky now. If you didn’t get the hamburger phone reference (I didn’t either, aside that it’s really old school) doesn’t immediately categorize it as wasted screentime. The movie wasn’t made for you

Anyway, it’s interesting to see what someone who didn’t like it thought of it. The people I’ve talked to about the movie seem to all have the same thought: “though it tries to be really snappy and cool with all its retro-pop-culture references, that’s what made it fun.” Bottom line is, I didn’t feel gypped that I paid to see it.
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Bottom line, it sounds like you just didn’t “get it.”
Why do people keep using this inane non-comeback when someone doesn't like their fave movie?
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:05 AM   #36
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Why do people keep using this inane non-comeback when someone doesn't like their fave movie?
It wasn't meant to be a comeback (and Juno's far from my fave). It's, really, just the way things are. Sometimes you get stuff, sometimes you don't and it doesn't reflect either good or bad on you. It's just a matter of taste (for ex., I absolutely did not get Napoleon Dynamite....so? Just wasn't my thing).

Not sure where you see it as being condescending. You even cut out the line after that to make it seem more snide-ish.

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But that’s fine, different movies for different people.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:34 AM   #37
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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It's, really, just the way things are. Sometimes you get stuff, sometimes you don't
Gimme a break. It's ALWAYS used when someone dislikes a movie, and then one of the fans reply back with a totally inane "you didn't get it", as if there is no way to "get it" while still disliking the movie. And if you did "get it", then you automatically like it.

That's a truly bizarre fanboy belief system, substituting "get it" for "liking it", and vice versa.

There are plenty of wafer-thin movies that a chimp could "get", but they still suck monkey balls.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:04 AM   #38
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

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Gimme a break. It's ALWAYS used when someone dislikes a movie, and then one of the fans reply back with a totally inane "you didn't get it", as if there is no way to "get it" while still disliking the movie. And if you did "get it", then you automatically like it.

That's a truly bizarre fanboy belief system, substituting "get it" for "liking it", and vice versa.

There are plenty of wafer-thin movies that a chimp could "get", but they still suck monkey balls.
Clearly, Jakkal is using the term "get it" not as a measure of intelligence or viewing comprehension, but as an indicator of aesthetic taste. Get it?

I haven't seen Juno but the trailer I saw turned me off, made me think it was going to be exactly the movie that Floresco described. The trailer had that scene when she tells her parents she is pregnant and by whom, and the father grins in spite of himself and says: "I didn't think he had it in him." Then he and the mother engage in some precious dialogue to the effect that they would have expected drugs or something else to afflict their 16-year-old ...

Right away I felt that this was writing that had no basis in reality. Your daughter tells you she's pregnant and all you can do is make some wisecrack about the father of the child? Seems to me that the only place this discussion would occur would be in a screenplay written by someone who was more concerned with appearing clever and funny than in writing real characters and truthful moments.

Last edited by winter dreams : 01-23-2008 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:17 AM   #39
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

I agree with Floresco.

One of the main reasons I did not like Juno is this movie is just trying too hard to be the next hip and cool thing (via dialog and pop-culture references) at the expense of telling a good (engaging) story, or creating sympathetic characters.

The main factor I think that puts a lot of people off, screenwriters or not, is REAL TEENS DO NOT TALK LIKE THE TEENS IN JUNO. Real teens don't spout as many one-liners, or pop-culture references as Juno would have you believe. I know it's fiction, but even fiction has its limits of believability.

This is a very simple, but crucial element that makes or breaks the credibility of and in part determines how the characters come off (sympathetic; unsympathetic).

More importantly it also makes it painfully obvious these so-called teens aren't teens. Teens can be sarcastic and "hip", but there is a difference when a "teen" in Juno starts referencing things most real teens don't use, or have knowledge of -- "Homeskillet"; "Thundercats"; etc.

I think this might be one of the main reasons (among others) why there is such an extreme difference of opinion on Juno. It has nothing to do with "getting it", or not. You either like your characters as more or less shallow and annoying caricatures, or you want more to them than just how many over-the-top pop-culture references they can throw out in the span of two minutes.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:39 AM   #40
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Default Re: Juno - Playing Everywhere Christmas Day

I have not seen this movie yet, but it's funny how people hate this for being "unpopular" with the masses, even though it's grossing a ridiculous amount of money... and for being "poorly written" even though it's up for an Academy Award for writing...Now I really want to see it.

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