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  • #31
    Re: Girls

    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
    I was very clear when I mentioned demographics and said nothing about major characters.

    Is it that difficult to hire Black, Latino and Asian extras to walk down the street or be in line at a coffee shop?

    It has nothing to do with being politically correct.

    "Sanitizing" New York scenes of all minorities who would normally be strolling in the background is really weird to me. Especially since I grew up in the New York metro area.
    I worked and hung out in the LES and Brooklyn for a fair number of years and I agree sanitizing it does seem beyond weird, but ultimately these writers are sticking strictly to what is in their comfort zone. Like HTMIA before it, their reality is an alternate NYC where the characters do everything that ambitious hard working people do, without the messiness of things like dealing with minorities that are not hipsters and doing any sort of activity that resembles work of any kind. The viewpoints of some of the very smart posters here I find much more interesting than the show itself, which has more navel-gazing than I can handle as someone outside their target audience.

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    • #32
      Re: Girls

      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
      Now who's being politically correct?
      How is that politically correct? Sanitazing, white-washing and other similar expressions describe a positive attempt to discriminate, which is not the case here.

      I can see how, if enough people overreact to the lack of visible minorities in Girls, it will go down the same route as Luck did. Sad, sad, sad.

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      • #33
        Re: Girls

        basically, this is an extra's casting problem. the casting agencies always hire white unless told to hire a different race. they could do better. they know how integrated we are, but they choose not to.

        i had the pleasure of being in a room with a woman staff writer for the west wing last year. when she opened the room (about 50/50 minorities b/c we're in DC) to questions i asked her about this... specifically how that show had only 1 token black guy in it and (her husband was a political consultant for the show as well) why her husband wasn't able to get them to be more realistic in regards to the number of black people who actually live and work in DC. people in the audience were clapping, but she was throwing daggers at me, esp after i said i never watched the show. lol!
        then she just blamed it on the casting agency.

        however, now i'm working with her on a project. who woulda thought?!

        okay - BACK ON TOPIC

        i don't get HBO so i'll just take your word for it all.

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        • #34
          Re: Girls

          Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
          How is that politically correct? Sanitazing, white-washing and other similar expressions describe a positive attempt to discriminate, which is not the case here.

          I can see how, if enough people overreact to the lack of visible minorities in Girls, it will go down the same route as Luck did. Sad, sad, sad.

          If the show is negatively impacted it's likely because so many news outlets are publishing the "ironic racism" tweets of the story editor. There were more than one and screen captures are all over the net. None of them ironically funny in my opinion. If this is the new breed of hipster - well - I find that ironic.
          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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          • #35
            Re: Girls

            I've only seen the tweet where she said she didn't feel represented in Precious either. That'd be sarcasm, not irony, but I don't see how that'd be racist. She just pointed out that different movies/series represent different people and leave out different people.

            And, by the way, the "ironically racist" tweets were a reaction to accusations of racism, accusations which were already there before the twitter mishaps of the writer/script editor.

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            • #36
              Re: Girls

              Originally posted by sc111 View Post
              "Sanitizing" New York scenes of all minorities who would normally be strolling in the background is really weird to me. Especially since I grew up in the New York metro area.
              Yes. And yet, there is a sort of odd logic to it. That is: If there are no non-whites seen anywhere, then it's as though they don't exist and therefore, obviously, it makes complete sense that they would never have a speaking role... a featured role... a lead role. But if in the inherently unreal world of a given TV show, if non-whites do exist, then how could they not at some point interact with the lead characters?

              And from a political/PR perspective: If non-whites don't exist in this unreal world, then that's the construct. But if they do exist, "Why are they simply relegated (literally) to the background?"

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              • #37
                Re: Girls

                I've been involved with extras casting for TV shows here in town. The agencies generally send you pictures of what you ask for.

                The absence of people of color had to be a conscious choice.
                If you really like it you can have the rights
                It could make a million for you overnight

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                • #38
                  Re: Girls

                  Originally posted by odocoileus View Post
                  I've been involved with extras casting for TV shows here in town. The agencies generally send you pictures of what you ask for.

                  The absence of people of color had to be a conscious choice.
                  that is 100% true. in fact, extras tend to be more non white than white.

                  ironic that the tweet was about "precious" because i think in a weird way its the preciousness of the world of girls that can be uncomfortable to watch - and that would be allieviated by something the rest of us think of as "reality".
                  its not dissimilar to woody allen's ny really, just a different age, different gender.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Girls

                    Before everyone gets upset, are we absolutely certain they didn't hire any very, very light-skinned minorities?

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                    • #40
                      Re: Girls

                      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                      You can't be serious...

                      @sc111: "sanitizing" is a very charged word, and shouldn't be used lightly.
                      I'm serious. It's a meaningless phrase and using it is a sign of someone being intellectually lazy. If you want to discuss something, discuss it, but calling other folks' opinions "political correctness" is just a shorthand for disregarding an opinion because you don't like it, without actually engaging in any sort of meaningful debate.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Girls

                        Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                        I'm serious. It's a meaningless phrase and using it is a sign of someone being intellectually lazy. If you want to discuss something, discuss it, but calling other folks' opinions "political correctness" is just a shorthand for disregarding an opinion because you don't like it, without actually engaging in any sort of meaningful debate.
                        Did you just call me "intellectually lazy"? Wow...

                        It is not "shorthand for disregarding an opiniĆ³n because (I) don't like it".

                        PC: Political correctness is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and, as purported by the term, doing so to an excessive extent. (from Wikipedia)

                        Now, you may not like it as part of an argument, you may even question the Wikipedia, but you can't deny that such behavior exists.

                        Girls may offer a very narrow perspective, but racist? GOOH

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                        • #42
                          Re: Girls

                          Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                          Girls may offer a very narrow perspective, but racist? GTFOUH
                          I don't think anyone's accusing anyone of being racist, just that they have the ability to show "reality" and they choose not to, for whatever reason. My theory is that they're just not thinking about it, or don't care. (The tweets kinda lean toward the latter, and, personally, I thought the "precious" tweet was funny.)

                          The bottomline is that it wouldn't hurt them to include minorities on the show. If you're going to show NY, then it'd be kinda crazy/unrealistic not to portray the ethnic/racial diversities in the Boroughs.

                          HH

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                          • #43
                            Re: Girls

                            http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...e-veil/256154/

                            This:

                            With that said, I think storytellers--first and foremost--must pledge their loyalty to the narrative as it comes to them. I don't believe in creating characters out a of desire to please your audience or even to promote an ostensible social good. I think good writing is essentially a selfish act--story-tellers are charged with crafting the narrative the want to see. I'm not very interested in Lena Dunham reflecting the aspirations of people she may or may not know. I'm interested in her specific and individual vision; in that story she is aching to tell. If that vision is all-white, then so be it. I don't think a story-teller can be guilted into making great characters.
                            And this:

                            There has been a lot of talk, this week about Lena Dunham's responsibility, but significantly less about the the people who sign her checks. My question is not "Why are there no black women on Girls," but "How many black show-runners are employed by HBO?" This is about systemic change, not individual attacks.

                            It is not so wrong to craft an exclusively white world--certainly a significant portion of America lives in one. What is wrong is for power-brokers to pretend that no other worlds exists. Across the country there are black writers and black directors toiling to bring those worlds to the screen. If HBO does not see fit to have a relationship with those writers, then those of us concerned should assess our relationship with HBO.

                            If you really like it you can have the rights
                            It could make a million for you overnight

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Girls

                              That's not exclusive to NY, that's true to just about any medium sized-to-big city in just about any developed western country. But a lot of shows set in some of those cities don't show much of that diversity. Does that make them racist? And why is Girls being singled out?

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                              • #45
                                Re: Girls

                                Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                                Yes. And yet, there is a sort of odd logic to it. That is: If there are no non-whites seen anywhere, then it's as though they don't exist and therefore, obviously, it makes complete sense that they would never have a speaking role... a featured role... a lead role. But if in the inherently unreal world of a given TV show, if non-whites do exist, then how could they not at some point interact with the lead characters?

                                And from a political/PR perspective: If non-whites don't exist in this unreal world, then that's the construct. But if they do exist, "Why are they simply relegated (literally) to the background?"
                                You make good points. How better to avoid the topic of race than by removing minority races from view.

                                On the now infamous "Precious" tweet ... it falls into what's called 'hipster racism,' a phrase coined after Time magazine did a cover cartoon of Prez. Obama and the First Lady fist bumping while dressed in stereotyped garb.

                                Hipster racism somehow makes it okay to denigrate another person's race or ethnicity if its done in an ironic, urbane way.

                                The thing is, the show's story editor/writer who tweeted the Precious misfire is described in these articles as a Long Island girl of Jewish background who likely didn't grow up around many minorities.

                                And it shows -- her "Precious" tweet was culturally tone deaf, as was an interview where she stated the N-word was a favorite of hers (mentioned in the Gawker article).*

                                So on one hand we have the argument that writers of Girls can people their stories with whomever they want. And I agree with that. But on the other hand we have a story editor/writer on Girls who has a track record of hipster racism comments.


                                http://gawker.com/5903468/a-girls-wr...eople-problems
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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