High Concept vs New High Concept

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  • #31
    Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    No, I said it was an uninteresting concept.

    [...]

    To me, "Dude, Where's My Car" is an ordinary comedy concept, with stoner characters that we've seen before, and here's the hook -- can't remember where they parked their car. Wow!
    It is a very weird stance that some people are taking here. They're pointing out spec scripts that sold, got made, and were hits as examples of what not to do... to people who are trying to sell spec scripts.

    Maybe figure out why they worked and apply those lessons to your own writing?

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    • #32
      Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
      It is a very weird stance that some people are taking here. They're pointing out spec scripts that sold, got made, and were hits as examples of what not to do... to people who are trying to sell spec scripts.

      Maybe figure out why they worked and apply those lessons to your own writing?
      I know good advice when I see it. Good advice ^^
      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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      • #33
        Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

        "Two stoners try to find their lost car that contains _____ after a night of hard partying.-

        If we can't agree that at the time - with the resurgence of turn of the century stoner comedies - that this is a brilliant hook with a Snakes On A Plane level of built-in marketing...what are we even doing here?

        Just admit you aren't trying to get things sold and made.

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        • #34
          Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
          Sundown listed Matrix, Jurassic Park and Edge of Tomorrow. I looked at the list with that benchmark in mind. Then again wouldn't all sci-fi fall under high concept.
          I listed them as new AND high, not just new. I also listed Feast, Hatchet and ATM as being high concept, they're just not groundbreaking or genre-blazing.

          Not all sci-fi is high concept. A 24th century space cadet pondering the meaning of life isn't high concept just like a 20th century housewife pondering the meaning of life isn't high concept. I think too many confuse high concept with being unique.
          Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 08-13-2020, 08:12 AM.
          M.A.G.A.

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          • #35
            Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            It is a very weird stance that some people are taking here. They're pointing out spec scripts that sold, got made, and were hits as examples of what not to do... to people who are trying to sell spec scripts.
            You've misunderstood my point about "uninteresting," which I was discussing in the context of this thread, and you missed my point about a story idea needs not to be great, etc. This wasn't about "what not to do."

            I had a thread called "Write The Right Script by Chris Lockhart." In that thread, I used DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR as an example of the RIGHT script for the RIGHT buyer. It's budget, execution, targeted audience, etc., worked to be commercially successful, even though the critics and myself hated it.

            In the "Picking Right Idea" I used DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR as an example that a story idea does not need to be GREAT, though, yes, if you want to get reads from industry people by way of just a logline in a query, then the story idea would need to be GREAT, as in most cases meaning High Concept.

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            • #36
              Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
              It is a very weird stance that some people are taking here. They're pointing out spec scripts that sold, got made, and were hits as examples of what not to do... to people who are trying to sell spec scripts.

              Maybe figure out why they worked and apply those lessons to your own writing?
              What I'm been trying to say in this thread and others, but because I'm not as good of a writer, it came off as gibberish.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                You've misunderstood my point about "uninteresting," which I was discussing in the context of this thread, and you missed my point about a story idea needs not to be great, etc. This wasn't about "what not to do."

                I had a thread called "Write The Right Script by Chris Lockhart." In that thread, I used DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR as an example of the RIGHT script for the RIGHT buyer. It's budget, execution, targeted audience, etc., worked to be commercially successful, even though the critics and myself hated it.

                In the "Picking Right Idea" I used DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR as an example that a story idea does not need to be GREAT, though, yes, if you want to get reads from industry people by way of just a logline in a query, then the story idea would need to be GREAT, as in most cases High Concept.
                Joe the reason most of us get confused is a lot of your answers, you quote other threads like it's some weird footnote in a college essay and it just goes in circles. Like looking up a word in the dictionary and they use the same word to help define it.

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                • #38
                  Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                  "Dude, Where's My Car?" is a clear idea that could be good if it's executed correctly. That is literally the first hurdle for every script written. I can not tell you how many loglines I read that do not clear that bar. Maybe 95%?

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                  • #39
                    Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                    Originally posted by Bono View Post

                    Joe the reason most of us get confused is a lot of your answers, you quote other threads like it's some weird footnote in a college essay and it just goes in circles.
                    The key was Jeff believed the story idea to DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR was GREAT. In my opinion, I do not. I define a story idea as GREAT being one where if it was sent off in a query letter to industry people, they would think, Wow! I gotta request this script!

                    If this story idea was presented to other writers, they would say, "Wow! I wish I thought of that." To me, this is a sign of GREAT.

                    After a night of hard partying, two stoners forgot where they parked their car, to me, doesn't elevate to the level of GREAT.

                    Now, if you want to define the movie GREAT, because it worked with it's targeted audience that's a different definition, which in the "Picking Right Idea" thread is what I thought Jeff was referring to with the success of JOHN TUCKER. This is why I asked him how does he define "GREAT," but he said, when a person hears it they go "Wow!

                    Sorry, these scripts were the RIGHT scripts for the RIGHT buyer, where they worked and became commercially successful, but I wouldn't put them on the level of GREAT as I would CASSABLANC, THE GODFATHER, etc.

                    This is just my opinion. I know most members in this thread disagree. That's cool.

                    Edited to add:

                    Jeff posted at the same time as me. It seems he is not saying the same thing as other members, referring to DUDE as great. Just a good concept and execution.
                    Last edited by JoeNYC; 08-13-2020, 08:57 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                      I'm in a writing group where we read spec scripts that have sold or were on The Black List but haven't been produced yet. (We tend to read comedy because I pick the scripts, so maybe I'm just talking about comedy here.)

                      Here are some of the titles of scripts we've recently read.

                      The Aliens are Stealing are Weed
                      They Cloned Tyrone
                      The Worst Guy Of All Time (and the Girl Who Came to Kill Him)

                      Those are all on the nose concepts. And the concepts all worked for me. Whether they worked or not on the page came down to execution.

                      All four of us loved the first one. The Aliens steal weed. The hapless pot growers fight back, try to figure WTH is going on. The scripts is great. Stays on track. Loved it.

                      Tyrone has a great title, world, characters but the story gets overly complicated. Still, I'd see it in the theater.

                      The worst guy goes off the rails in the second half. Still, I think the concept is a fun one.

                      All of those sound like fun movies to me.

                      I saw Dude Where's My Car in the theater without knowing any specifics because it sounded like a fun movie, and I wasn't disappointed. I think it's a high concept. You can have a low brow high concept. That might be my favorite genre to see in the theater. Hot Tub Time Machine. The Spy Who Dumped Me.

                      Maybe I just like movies where I know the movie from the title?

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                      • #41
                        Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                        The key was Jeff believed the story idea to DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR was GREAT.
                        You can capitalize the word and repeat it a dozen times, it's not what I said. Here is exactly what I said:

                        Joe gave the example of "Dude, Where's My Car?" being low concept - I disagree. First off, the title makes me laugh, and the logline - two stoners forget where they parked their car after a night of partying - is original, it tells you what the movie is quickly, it tells you what kind of comedy it is...
                        The word "great" is really hanging you up.

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                        • #42
                          Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                          You can capitalize the word and repeat it a dozen times, it's not what I said. Here is exactly what I said:
                          Yes, yes. You're typing and posting too fast. I realized this with your previous post and edited my post to reflect this.

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                          • #43
                            Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                            I think Joe and others think "great" means the movie was a work of art and great like JAWS versus I'm saying and Jeff is saying "great concepts that will give you a better chance to sell spec script vs other not great ideas."

                            SNAKES ON A PLANE is probably not a great movie to most, but it's a great concept in that "yes I want to read that script" and "yes I want to see that movie on Friday."

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                            • #44
                              Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                              If you queried "Dude Where's My Car- in early 1999 you're getting a read.

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                              • #45
                                Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

                                Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                                If you queried "Dude Where's My Car- in early 1999 you're getting a read.
                                Agreed. Also -- according to the sales archive if you made anything from 20 years ago -- you're getting it re-sold TODAY as well.

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