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  • #16
    Re: Pull Back to Reveal

    Alex, just a heads up. Craig's remark had nothing to do with whether you were pointing out nmstevens with "you." Craig is a comedy writer and you insulted him with your "if you are writing gag films, then there is less at stake" remark.

    All comedy writers should take offense to this. Their work is no less important than writers of dramas, thrillers, etc. In fact, writing comedies is one of the hardest genres to write. There have been gag films that have stand the test of time and watched again and again.
    Last edited by JoeNYC; 10-10-2012, 05:59 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: Pull Back to Reveal

      Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
      I read a lot of scripts for folks, and when I come across a glaring direction such as PULL BACK REVEAL, it feels like an old LP skipping, and the rhythm I'm in takes a hit. Things go abstract.
      Read more professional scripts. It will stop bothering you.

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      • #18
        Re: Pull Back to Reveal

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        Alex, just a heads up. Craig's remark had nothing to do with whether you were pointing out nmstevens with "you." Craig is a comedy writer and you insulted him with your "if you are writing gag films, then there is less at stake" remark.

        All comedy writers should take offense to this. Their work is no less important than writers of dramas, thrillers, etc. In fact, writing comedies is one of the hardest genres to write.
        I mentioned it after reading back what I wrote, and it sounded off. Not because of Craig's input.

        And ...

        There is a diff between a gag film and a good, well-written comedy. No reason for Craig to take offence.

        a

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        • #19
          Re: Pull Back to Reveal

          Alex says, "There is a diff between a gag film and a good, well-written comedy."

          -- I think you're gonna need a bigger shovel for that hole you're digging.

          Craig's work history has been mostly built on gag films. What you're expressing is that gag films aren't good, well written comedies. Just a series of gags thrown together.

          Have you ever heard of Charlie Chaplin, or Buster Keaton? "Airplane" is a gag film and it was a critical and commercial successs. Wouldn't you say this is not good, but a great, well-written comedy?

          Just cause one writes a gag film doesn't mean it isn't a good, well-written piece of work.

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          • #20
            Re: Pull Back to Reveal

            The way a script really stands the test of time is by being made into a movie. You get there by being clear. There's nothing wrong with using pull back to reveal or any other direction. It's all about preference and being effective. No offense Alex, but your view seems romanticized and unrealistic.
            Ring-a-ding-ding, baby.

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            • #21
              Re: Pull Back to Reveal

              NMS pretty much covered it, but the rules for this stuff is the same as the rules for everything else. If the scene needs it, use it. Don't use it if it doesn't need it.

              If this scene absolutely must be a POV shot, use a POV in the directions. If it has to be PULL BACK TO REVEAL, by God, use PULL BACK TO REVEAL. I spent so many scripts trying to do lyrical back flips to avoid using camera directions because I was told they were evil and must be avoided.

              Anything that helps you tell your story is the right thing to use. Just use it judiciously.
              Chicks Who Script podcast

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              • #22
                Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post
                Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
                I suppose if you are writing gag films, then there is less at stake.
                Okee doke, buddy.
                Code:
                EXT.  SOMEWHERE IN SPRINGFIELD - DAY
                
                Nelson sees Lisa scowl at something she just heard.
                
                                    NELSON
                            [URL="http://youtu.be/rX7wtNOkuHo"]Ha-ha.[/URL]
                OTOH, as much as I luuuv Nelson's laugh, I'm with Lisa on this. "Less at stake"? Shirley you jest. Or, in this case, apparently not so much.

                (Unless by "gag films", you mean like "Pink Flamingos". Indeed, for me, a little less Pull Back to Reveal mighta helped.)

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                • #23
                  Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                  PULL BACK TO REVEAL works really well when used correctly.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                    Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
                    And here is why I really encourage screeenwriters who have not been produced to try and get even a short under their belt, so they can see where these kinds of things can get lost in translation. Even with the best intentions it still may not be clear to someone along the line, or possibly to no one except the writer. Clarity to a writer may not be clarity to a sound dude or dudette, or to the director, etc.

                    And, as mentioned, even if it is clear, and reinforced with some instruction or another, it still may not live past the first interpretation phase, or the directing, or the editing. That's why I do encourage a writer, that if they really feel something is important, then make it really important. Don't tell me to put the camera here or there because you think it is important. Make me never want to change what you wrote - whenever possible!

                    I suppose if you are writing gag films, then there is less at stake. If you want to write something that will stand the test of time, however, and be watched again and again, then you should be writing pure story as much as you can possibly write it, with these instructions an absolute last resort.

                    IMHO

                    a

                    I don't know what you mean by a "gag" film -- a movie like Airplane, so far as I can see, is as close to a perfect "gag" film as anything I can think of, and it's stood the test of time for over thirty years -- better than most so-called "serious" films made around the same time. I've watched it dozens of times.

                    What is the "pure" story of Airplane? The story is "Zero Hour" -- a completely straight thriller that Airplane riffs on so mercilessly that it's simply impossible to go back and watch the original without laughing -- because you can't help remembering the remake.

                    And so far as I can see, writing your script so that those who are reading it will understand clearly and concisely what you mean, should be the first resort, not the last.

                    In any case, when we talk about "gags" and making gags work, that's a construction that applies not just to comic moments, but to scares, to cries, to any kind of emotional beat that involves a set-up, a build, and a surprise twist. It's a kind of dramatic construction (even though, of course, it's usually associated with comedy) that's used in all sorts of ways.

                    The point is, to make a "gag" work, it has to be set up and paid off correctly.

                    That often means that things have to be seen in the right way, in the right order, at the right time -- so that the "gag" pays off.

                    In exactly the same way that you have to tell a joke so that the punch line comes at the end and not a line before the end.

                    And that's not the actor's job, or the D.P.'s job, or the director's job.

                    If it's our gag, it's our job to make it clear, so that the reader, and ultimately everyone down the line, "get's" it.

                    NMS

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                    • #25
                      Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                      I think the point about amateurs is important - amateurs will use these sort of things and NOT know when it should or should not be used, and that is why most teachers tell them (us) to avoid it.
                      www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                      http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                      http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                      Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                      Want a free book?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                        Those are sh!tty teachers. Using format correctly is incredibly easy to teach.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                          Pull Back to Reveal is awesome.

                          If it works use it, but don't go overboard with camera directions throughout the script.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                            Those are sh!tty teachers. Using format correctly is incredibly easy to teach.
                            Okay, please teach us when flashback and narration should be used - I would love to see the way you teach it that makes sure amateur writers always use it in a way that makes the story better.
                            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                            http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                            Want a free book?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                              Originally posted by stainjm View Post
                              I think the point about amateurs is important - amateurs will use these sort of things and NOT know when it should or should not be used, and that is why most teachers tell them (us) to avoid it.
                              Amateurs make a lot of mistakes. But you're not going to teach them to be better writers by tying their hands behind their backs and telling them they are limited to a subset of the available tools.

                              "Pros use framing hammers ... but since you're just starting out, you'll have to use this rubber mallet."
                              STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Pull Back to Reveal

                                Think of all the people who have made it off of DoneDeal pro. Many have blown up. All of them started off as amateurs.

                                Most of this stuff comes natural to the amateurs who are going to become working screenwriters. Sure a note here or there can help but someone should know when a flashback is dope and when it's a cop-out to fill a narrative/dramatic void.

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