Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
    I decided from day one to run this as an experiment to test the service. I have a script that I am confident doesn't suck. So I submitted it and have done nothing to try and get people to read it. I purchased a read and have since paid for a second. I want to compare them and see where they fall.

    I also wanted to see what traffic actually comes to the script because the biggest unanswered question is whether the industry will utilize this service as a primary tool in finding scripts. Only time will tell.
    You're like Mikey in the old Life cereal commercials.

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    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Warning: excessive rambling ahead.

      If the evaluation is on a scale of 1-10, 10 would mean it's perfect on all counts, which would likely be almost impossible to get, and even scripts that sell aren't necessarily perfect 10's. So readers may be thinking that a score of 8 or 9 is comparable to a recommend, which I've heard is very rare for readers to give, even on a script they really like, either because there is always something that could be improved, or because their reputation as a reader is on the line if their boss reads it and doesn't agree - or something like that. So does that mean a score of 7 is like a consider, or a strong consider? Or is the 10 a recommend, and 8 or 9 is the strong consider, and a 7 is a regular consider? Or is it just above average? A 7 sounds like a good score, but then when you think about it, it's only 1 point above a 6, which suddenly doesn't sound that good. Maybe it would be better for the evaluations to also include: absolutely pass, pass with reservations, consider with reservations, consider, strong consider, recommend. Or is there a numerical score breakdown of what the numbers equate to on those terms?

      "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Originally posted by cshel View Post
        Warning: excessive rambling ahead.

        If the evaluation is on a scale of 1-10, 10 would mean it's perfect on all counts, which would likely be almost impossible to get, and even scripts that sell aren't necessarily perfect 10's. So readers may be thinking that a score of 8 or 9 is comparable to a recommend, which I've heard is very rare for readers to give, even on a script they really like, either because there is always something that could be improved, or because their reputation as a reader is on the line if their boss reads it and doesn't agree - or something like that. So does that mean a score of 7 is like a consider, or a strong consider? Or is the 10 a recommend, and 8 or 9 is the strong consider, and a 7 is a regular consider? Or is it just above average? A 7 sounds like a good score, but then when you think about it, it's only 1 point above a 6, which suddenly doesn't sound that good. Maybe it would be better for the evaluations to also include: absolutely pass, pass with reservations, consider with reservations, consider, strong consider, recommend. Or is there a numerical score breakdown of what the numbers equate to on those terms?

        And therein lies the challenge. Obviously, a single rating is not enough to decide whether to continue to push your script on the site. And if I am a reader and you are a reader we may view scores slightly differently. I may think a 7 is a good script worth having a look at. You may view it as slightly above average. I may be reluctant to give an 8 for the reasons you stated and since I can't hedge and give it say a 7.5 I tend to be cautious and go with the 7. Who knows.

        I would tend to look at it much like you - basically on this scale taking out the low end score of 1 and even 2 and the top score of 10 since most scripts submitted are highly unlikely to receive any of those. 8 and above seems a sure bet to get reads, 7 might be the cut off line. I think once more data comes in on the average ratings for uploaded scripts, we will have a better idea. But that avg community rating should be dropping closer to 6 as things move along (my guess).

        But things grow more complicated when you factor in the comments. For example a comment like "this could be a really funny movie and good director/actor bait" seems like a highly positive comment regardless of the overall score. But nobody is going to see that unless you make your review public but perhaps Franklin will jump in and tell us that the reader comments will come into play in the site's algorithm and not just the score.

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        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          I wrote some initial thoughts on the Black List here, if anyone's interested: http://www.jameshutchinson.la/

          Patrick's experience really gives me pause - the least you can expect for your $75 is competent coverage. Really worrying.

          Comment


          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            That does worry me.

            FYI - since I joined about 1.5 weeks ago, I've seen 300 new uploads. My info has been viewed 13 times.

            I paid for the coverage and saw 1 download two or three days later, which I assume was for the coverage.

            Looking forward to share my experience!
            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
            http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

            Want a free book?

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by Crashlander View Post
              I wrote some initial thoughts on the Black List here, if anyone's interested: http://www.jameshutchinson.la/

              Patrick's experience really gives me pause - the least you can expect for your $75 is competent coverage. Really worrying.
              Well written, thoughtful, piece. I agree with a lot of what you said, particularly when it comes to the scripts being buried with no way to find new scripts. This is problematic to say the least.

              Your conclusion that you are "paying for nothing, essentially." seems true at the moment but I remain optimistic that this will change relatively quickly.

              Comment


              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
                But that avg community rating should be dropping closer to 6 as things move along (my guess).
                I don't think so, because nobody would set public a rating below 6. Or are the low ratings included into the system even though the writer doesn't make them public?

                Interestingly, since I got the review & rating, my script got several downloads more, even though I didn't set them as public.
                Last edited by goldmund; 10-24-2012, 10:49 AM.

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
                  It's a reasonable request, but I'm ready to just move on at this point. Also, somewhat selfishly, I don't want a crummy review of my script floating around on a public forum, as unjustified as I might think it to be, plus I'm in the middle of a rewrite on another project and really don't need the nigh-inevitable 'well maybe he's right and you just suck' responses right now.

                  Unlike Patrick, the review I got on my script was not riddled with typos -- however I was surprised by the extremely low rating (3 overall and even lower in some categories) and criticism that "The screenplay is far from the quality expected for major production".

                  I understood that my script was certainly not for everyone and, moreover, that everyone has their own tastes.

                  But this is also a script that was a quarterfinalist in Page, Consider with reservations from Scriptmechanic, and liked enough to get me asked for more material at places like Management 360, Radar Pictures, and others.

                  So I was expecting something in the 5-8 range and at least thought it would be considered a professional quality script.

                  And the fact that it's review was so far off what I've gotten from other, established places makes me concerned that BL is hiring some questionable reviewers -- and if that's the case, the paid coverage could be a real roulette wheel down the line where you just pay a couple times and wait to get a good spin.

                  ONE NOTE/CAVEAT: I assume that the coverage is the review I paid, but there have been three downloads so it's possible that the coverage is from an industry professional.

                  I can definitely understand reticence to post bad reviews of your stuff online, but I think it's better to be specific and let others make their own informed judgments so I'm posting the review below and letting anybody read the script who wants to.

                  The script is called 13 BLACKOUTS by me, Steve Peterson. It's on the Blacklist site until the end of the month at:

                  https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4022

                  Or you can download directly from here:

                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/407654/13%20...-%20public.pdf

                  P.S. PM me your email address if the dropbox public download doesn't work.

                  PREMISE
                  5/10



                  PLOT
                  3/10



                  CHARACTERS
                  3/10



                  DIALOGUE
                  2/10



                  OVERALL
                  3/10




                  Era: Unspecified/Present
                  Locations: Nate's apartment, Roadhouse bar, MRI room, library, parking lot, doctor's office, field, Very Large
                  Budget: Medium
                  Genre: Sci-Fi
                  Genre: 104
                  Logline: When an ordinary musician begins to black out and lose chunks of his life, he must fight to unravel the conspiracy behind his disturbing mental condition.
                  Strenghts: The premise of brains becoming infected like computers is intriguing and watchable sci-fi. The script has some strong visuals, like the satellite farm of Very Large Array. The mystery element is present throughout the entire script.
                  Weaknesses: The lion's share of the story is confusing and hard to follow. It could be ironed out and explained more clearly. Although the time jumps are essential to the story, they are disorienting. The characters remain two-dimensional, especially Shelby the love interest and Fischer the antagonist.
                  Prospects The screenplay is far from the quality expected for major production and lacks the proper ingredients to find even a niche audience.
                  Last edited by sppeterson; 10-24-2012, 10:32 AM. Reason: added P.S. about PMing if Dropbox has problems
                  Steven Palmer Peterson

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by goldmund View Post
                    I don't think so, because nobody would set public a rating below 6. Or are the low ratings included into the system even though the writer doesn't make them public?

                    Interestingly, since I got the review & rating, my script got several reads more, even though I didn't set them as public.
                    You can choose to keep your script's avg rating to yourself but all ratings will be counted for the statistics on the site and will factor into the overall community avg.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
                      Well written, thoughtful, piece. I agree with a lot of what you said, particularly when it comes to the scripts being buried with no way to find new scripts. This is problematic to say the least.

                      Your conclusion that you are "paying for nothing, essentially." seems true at the moment but I remain optimistic that this will change relatively quickly.
                      Me too. I want it to work.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        What is with the misspelling of 'Strengths' in all these reviews? Can anyone explain?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by goldmund View Post
                          I don't think so, because nobody would set public a rating below 6. Or are the low ratings included into the system even though the writer doesn't make them public?

                          Interestingly, since I got the review & rating, my script got several downloads more, even though I didn't set them as public.
                          Yup, included until you take your script off - which is why I would say the average should stay around where it is now, or even raise - because if you get a 6 or below, what incentive is there to leave your script on the site and keep paying? Therefore, logically you would assume eventually there would only be well rated scripts on the site, with an average of 7 or 8.

                          No?
                          www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                          http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                          http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                          Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                          Want a free book?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by Crashlander View Post
                            I wrote some initial thoughts on the Black List here, if anyone's interested: http://www.jameshutchinson.la/

                            Patrick's experience really gives me pause - the least you can expect for your $75 is competent coverage. Really worrying.
                            A good summation.

                            But I'm still hazy about how it works. You said scripts get buried, and can't be searched unless the title/author is already known to search for. Can a professional just go on there and do a search for, say, comedies at a certain budget, and then based on the LL, with or without a review, decide to read something. Or do they have to have it sent to them, based on certain factors, in order to know about it. I know things are still settling in, so it may not be clear yet.

                            Also, you're right, it could get really expensive. And the reader review factor is huge, at least in the beginning. It's really important that the readers be experienced, and actually read the script, which means they have to be paid accordingly for at least a couple of hours of their time. So I don't think there's any way around a $50.00 fee. Maybe it could be less per month to list it, after the first month. Or if you pay for and get a good review. That might facilitate a better script database overall.

                            I'm really hoping this can be a good thing for both sides. I'm not that familiar with Inktip or ScriptPipeline. What are the big differences?
                            "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Originally posted by sppeterson View Post
                              Unlike Patrick, the review I got on my script was not riddled with typos -- however I was surprised by the extremely low rating (3 overall and even lower in some categories) and criticism that "The screenplay is far from the quality expected for major production".

                              I understood that my script was certainly not for everyone and, moreover, that everyone has their own tastes.

                              But this is also a script that was a quarterfinalist in Page, Consider with reservations from Scriptmechanic, and liked enough to get me asked for more material at places like Management 360, Radar Pictures, and others.

                              So I was expecting something in the 5-8 range and at least thought it would be considered a professional quality script.
                              I'm glad you posted this as I had almost the EXACT same experience. I also got a 3. I wasn't expecting a 10 by any stretch, but a 3?

                              Here is my big issue with my experience which is similar to yours.

                              I've had the script I submitted reviewed by ScriptGal and the Screenplay Mechanic. Their comments (strength/weaknesses) were very close to one another across the board which in turn produced a tremendous amount of value in evaluating where I am in this process. In fact, the short SlamDance feedback I got was also similar to their strengths.

                              What I got from this service was something completely the opposite. For example, where my characters were rated "excellent" by both SG/SM I got a 2/10 by the BL reader -- which was the lowest rated part of my script by BL. To say I was left scratching my head after that review would be an understatement.

                              If I hadn't received consistant notes from these two respected individuals prior, I would be seriously questioning everything about this script and where I need to focus on improving as a writer.

                              Thankfully, due to those prior notes, I pulled my script and am left questioning who the Black List has reading/rating these screenplays.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Sounds like they hired the readers from Amazon Studios! Ahhh!
                                www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                                http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                                http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                                Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                                Want a free book?

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