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Old 09-22-2019, 04:09 PM   #21
JoeNYC
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Why? I suspect it's because I made a comment in response to you in the Carnivore thread related to protag intros/unfilmables/Craig Mazin and Joe took offense...
sc111, the motivation for this thread wasn't because I took offense. It was because Gucci had the wrong opinion about Mazin's point about "summing up your characters."

I thought this would be a good way to enter into a discussion about character introductions and TELLING and SHOWING, which both have their valid strengths.

Even though I'm mainly in the SHOW camp, I have used the TELLING way in one of my scripts to reveal character.

For an example, a character introduction from my teen romantic drama that's set in Texas:

SHELBY PHILLIPS, 17, a beauty, but don't let her soft looks fool you. She's Texas-tough.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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IMHO, it’s that and it’s about attention. We’ve all been over this convo now three times ad nauseam.
Oh my God, finalact4, again with the "ego" theory.

I'm just trying to contribute to the Done Deal site that I've been part of for years. Why must you always derail a thread by attacking me? Is it that hard to stay on topic?

Who's bullying who?
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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sc111, the motivation for this thread wasn't because I took offense. It was because Gucci had the wrong opinion about Mazin's point about "summing up your characters."

....
In my opinion, Gucci's opinion about Mazin's point was 100% correct as evidenced by the quotes you selected showing Mazin agreed with Lowell on talent being the crucial component. And since we all agree Carnivore is evidence of Gucci's talent, was this thread necessary?

That's a rhetorical question, btw.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Oh my God, finalact4, again with the "ego" theory.

I'm just trying to contribute to the Done Deal site that I've been part of for years. Why must you always derail a thread by attacking me? Is it that hard to stay on topic?

Who's bullying who?
Nothing FA4 said qualifies as bullying.

And now I've broken the promise to myself 3 times.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

I don't mind having this convo..

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SHELBY PHILLIPS, 17, a beauty, but don't let her soft looks fool you. She's Texas-tough.
See, for me, that's like 'almost' there, but not quite. For me, I want it to go further if you're going there. Like... [bad version]

SHELBY PHILLIPS, 17, a beauty like you ain't never seen. But don't let her soft charm fool ya none, she's Texas-tough like a bareback rodeo. If you aim to wrangle this lil' darlin, some words of advice... don’t risk It, rope the brisket.

...Or something. Play with some words.

Give me some voice/tone here otherwise why bother breaking the RULES?
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Originally Posted by JoeNYC View Post
Oh my God, finalact4, again with the "ego" theory.

I'm just trying to contribute to the Done Deal site that I've been part of for years. Why must you always derail a thread by attacking me? Is it that hard to stay on topic?

Who's bullying who?
I get it. It’s my opinion and you don’t agree.

You said Gucci’s opinion is wrong about CM. How can a person’s opinion be wrong? He’s not wrong. It’s his opinion. I responded to a comment by the target of your thread.

YOU made it about something you’ve stated several times already and cycled back to your previous statements. You titled it about the same topic you’ve pointed out for the third time. It’s not a new topic, it’s the same conversation.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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In my opinion, Gucci's opinion about Mazin's point was 100% correct as evidenced by the quotes you selected showing Mazin agreed with Lowell on talent being the crucial component.
Yup... seems like Craig ultimately agreed with Jeff that it essentially 'DEPENDS.'
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Yup... seems like Craig ultimately agreed with Jeff that it essentially 'DEPENDS.'
Yes. Which dates further back to your Hybrid Underground pages when Joe mentioned Mazin's comments on character intros and I said he was mischaractering what Mazin said, in that thread, of course. This thread is another story.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Yup... seems like Craig ultimately agreed with Jeff that it essentially 'DEPENDS.'
Agreed. I loved your character into on Carnivore.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Straight forward question: Do you think I succeeded in that or no? If not, how do you think I could have done it better?
In your CARNIVORE thread, with your protagonist’s character introduction, you’ve succeeded 100%. I have no notes to give you on that. You expressed a winning style, tone and voice.

TELLING is not wrong. It’s a personal preference by the writer. Sometimes a writer may choose to get across a character’s psychological nature and personality in a novelistic way by TELLING.

Craig Mazin hates when a writer does this, but when done well, it can be interesting and revealing.

For example, from AS GOOD AS IT GETS:

POV - MELVIN UDALL

in the hallway... Well past 50... unliked, unloved, unsettling. A huge pain in the ass to everyone he’s ever met. Right now all his considerable talent and strength is totally focused on seducing a tiny dog into the elevator door he holds open.

Character Introductions is not just about a character’s phsyical description. It’s about getting across who the character “is.” His nature.

For example, from EIGHT LEGGED FREAKS:

JOSHUA TAFT, (70s), scrutinizes the bug. This old codger is more comfortable studying bugs than socializing with people.

I suggest for a writer to strive to have a strong first impression with their character introductions because he wants to hook the reader to follow his character. He wants to hook an actor where he tells his agent I must play this character.

Character introductions are not just about descriptions. It’s also about how you introduce the character when he first appears on screen in the scene’s context.

For example, in PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN:

Jack Sparrow sails into port like he’s the King of the world. Very heroic. It looks like he’s on a majestic ship, but it’s revealed he’s on a pitiful dingy that’s sinking. He jumps off onto the dock with perfect timing as the dingy goes under.

This entrance reveals character and personality. It expresses a charisma and assurness. It makes you want to follow this guy to see what he does next.

Last edited by JoeNYC : 09-22-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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