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Old 09-05-2019, 11:06 AM   #51
Rantanplan
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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It depends on several factors: is it an original screenplay that's being rewritten, or an adaptation of something? If it's original, the rewriter must contribute 50% to share Written By with Writer #1. If not, it's 33%. Is the rewriter also considered a "production executive" (which includes a writer/director). Then it's 50% again. It's all in the WGA Screen Credits Manual (https://www.wga.org/uploadedfiles/cr...s_manual18.pdf)

But here's the thing - it all comes down to arbitration, and that's a very subjective process: those percentages are determined by a panel of other writers, who often don't agree. I've been through a few arbitrations, and some panelists feel differently about who contributed what, etc. You never know how it's gonna turn out.

Thanks, professor!!
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:45 PM   #52
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

I would add that you should TELL PEOPLE what you want when asking for feedback or notes.

I always ask friends when what they want.Do you want brutal honest? Suggestions? Or do you just want me to tell you it's good?

And I always send my script and say something like this "You don't have to read this. If you do, feel free to give me brutally honest notes or none at all. But rip it to shreds. Offer suggestions. I want to make it better."

So I think maybe we should do more of that hear - if you ONLY want certain things, don't just assume everyone is playing by same rules. Even in blackjack, the guy or girl next to you doesn't always hit on 13.

Last edited by Bono : 10-02-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:01 PM   #53
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

Yup... you can kinda tell people are looking for different sh!t.

With my pages I said up front "Already sold... not really gonna consider notes." So I was clear. If you love it THANKS, if you HATE it... nothing I can do about it. Not gonna rewrite it now.

We went into the "What would Craig Mazin think of this" realm, but even if he came on here and said "Bruh, this SUCKS you should CHANGE it!" I'm still not gonna, because everyone involved didn't have those notes for me. Even if I thought CM's notes were RIGHT, I still wouldn't change it. What if I'm cutting something people generally like about it?

There's plenty of film/TV I think SUCKS FUKKING ASS, yet they're hits. My notes for them would be pointless.

Said another way: Black is my favorite color (Yes, nerds, I understand black ain't actually a color), but for some people it's... ICK... YELLOW. Bruh, fukkin WHAT??? Who chooses YELLOW? THEM!

Agreed: State what notes you're looking for. Otherwise, I'ma say "Should be more BLACK! Way too much YELLOW for me!"
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:04 PM   #54
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May be "just me," but the term "brutally honest" is like some echo chamber phrase that I've come across a zillion times in both requests for feedback from others and characterizations of feedback provided to me, and I think it's completely loaded and counter-productive.

To me it says "find as much fault with this material as possible," which IMO fosters discouragement, resentment, and inutility. The goal should always be to improve the material from its current draft, to make it better and help it reach its full potential. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's okay to just communicate that you don't think it's a viable script for whatever reason, but no need to be cruel.

Again, I may just be inferring more than is intended by a given person's use of the term, but does the inclusion of the descriptor "brutal" somehow make any given feedback more honest? It sounds downright masochistic.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:28 PM   #55
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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May be "just me," but the term "brutally honest" is like some echo chamber phrase that I've come across a zillion times in both requests for feedback from others and characterizations of feedback provided to me, and I think it's completely loaded and counter-productive.

To me it says "find as much fault with this material as possible," which IMO fosters discouragement, resentment, and inutility. The goal should always be to improve the material from its current draft, to make it better and help it reach its full potential. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's okay to just communicate that you don't think it's a viable script for whatever reason, but no need to be cruel.

Again, I may just be inferring more than is intended by a given person's use of the term, but does the inclusion of the descriptor "brutal" somehow make any given feedback more honest? It sounds downright masochistic.
These are good points.

It doesn't help me if a fellow writer says "this payoff is not working here," "there's not enough subtext here," "the characters actions fall flat here." Well, why? How? What is the remedy? The revisions are the notes I like to give, whenever possible, and the kind of notes I appreciate in return. They don't have to be the best ideas, but your idea may lead to another one that I had never previously thought of.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:32 PM   #56
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post
May be "just me," but the term "brutally honest" is like some echo chamber phrase that I've come across a zillion times in both requests for feedback from others and characterizations of feedback provided to me, and I think it's completely loaded and counter-productive.

To me it says "find as much fault with this material as possible," which IMO fosters discouragement, resentment, and inutility. The goal should always be to improve the material from its current draft, to make it better and help it reach its full potential. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's okay to just communicate that you don't think it's a viable script for whatever reason, but no need to be cruel.

Again, I may just be inferring more than is intended by a given person's use of the term, but does the inclusion of the descriptor "brutal" somehow make any given feedback more honest? It sounds downright masochistic.
Good point. I think a fukk ton of people in this industry make a living off of "brutal honesty." Meaning THEY HAVE NO REAL FUKKING OPINION! "No, this sucks" isn't a real opinion. "Here's how it could work" is a real opinion.

But, I gotta defend Bono here because he often comes with "Or maybe try this ____." and his opinions are usually good IMO. So, you know he cares and isn't just showing off how much of a d!ck he can be (Unlike Hollywood).
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:27 PM   #57
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post
May be "just me," but the term "brutally honest" is like some echo chamber phrase that I've come across a zillion times in both requests for feedback from others and characterizations of feedback provided to me, and I think it's completely loaded and counter-productive.

To me it says "find as much fault with this material as possible," which IMO fosters discouragement, resentment, and inutility. The goal should always be to improve the material from its current draft, to make it better and help it reach its full potential. If you don't have anything nice to say, it's okay to just communicate that you don't think it's a viable script for whatever reason, but no need to be cruel.

Again, I may just be inferring more than is intended by a given person's use of the term, but does the inclusion of the descriptor "brutal" somehow make any given feedback more honest? It sounds downright masochistic.
I understand your points - but pick other words -- I just choose the first ones that came to mind. I think you knew exactly what I meant -- you're just given me "honest notes" on my post. But that's my point -- I think yes it should be to improve material -- but see how we may not be on same page. I think we are -- you just didn't like the term I used. I'm not looking to pick on bad scripts. I'm looking to make good scripts great.

I don't find my friends ( or any readers) giving me their honest thoughts as cruel. I find it more cruel to give a person "good job" when you dislike the material and then they have false confidence.

My latest thing -- tv pilot -- it had been a long time between projects so I asked readers to "let me know if I can still write." That was my goal with reads. And some people that always give me detailed notes -- had no notes -- and that was also my way of knowing they disliked it, but they didn't want to do "brutal honesty" as I called it. It's not fun being that guy. It actually takes guts to tell someone the truth. It's not easy. Or fun. It sucks. So if someone takes the time to offer you that hard note, thank them. They may be wrong, but thank them. Craig Mazin helped save GOT being that good writer friend.

I have given plenty of "good job" notes to people over the years -- and part of me feels bad -- but a lot of the time it was to strangers or people I just met on here that I knew if I went too honest it would backfire because that has happened many times to me. So I rarely give my full notes except to the few I know really want it and can take it.

We all secretly want to hear THIS IS THE BEST SCRIPT ever. Maybe not even secretly.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:00 PM   #58
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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Good point. I think a fukk ton of people in this industry make a living off of "brutal honesty." Meaning THEY HAVE NO REAL FUKKING OPINION! "No, this sucks" isn't a real opinion. "Here's how it could work" is a real opinion.

But, I gotta defend Bono here because he often comes with "Or maybe try this ____." and his opinions are usually good IMO. So, you know he cares and isn't just showing off how much of a d!ck he can be (Unlike Hollywood).
Thanks, but I guess I'm doing it wrong. It appears the best way to help other writers is to praise them at all times and never use the wrong words.

What are we on Twitter? I'm too old for this crap!
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:11 PM   #59
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

Look I try to help people on here, but there's always the 10 to 20 people who are just looking to offer terrible or unhelpful advice and defend any writer's work (not their own) from criticism.

You can read my posts and judge if I'm trying to be helpful or just win some "a$$hole" contest.

I've told people I don't like their title, logline, idea -- but I try to offer tons of suggestions. It's up to OP to tell me to go "F - MYSELF" which is fine.

But I kind of get sick of the people that just chime in to not offer help, but just pick apart the help that is given. Now I probably done the same thing -- but I don't do it ONLY.

For sure there are posters who live to do that. And you know what they are saying? They are saying they are taking my criticism of others work as I'm talking to them. Same stuff happens on social media. The younger the person, the more self centered they are and they ALWAYS assume every post is about them. Everything said is direct shot at them. It's INSANE TO ME.

So now that I sealed up the "A$$hole Award" please use my full name BONO VOX.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:49 PM   #60
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Default Re: A Note about Notes

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Thanks, but I guess I'm doing it wrong. It appears the best way to help other writers is to praise them at all times and never use the wrong words.

What are we on Twitter? I'm too old for this crap!
Twitter is a fukkin joke. It's FUKKING CREPPY how much ass is kissed on Twitter. Kissing ass ain't my style so I mostly avoid it.

Likewise, too old to sit around kissing ass on Twitter.
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