I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

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  • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

    Not sure if you guys can see this hotlinked image, but this is known a stacked bar graph. Just thought I'd post it for consideration.

    https://help.allegiancetech.com/Info...stackedBar.png
    Script Revolution - A free to use script hosting website that offers screenwriters a platform to promote their scripts and a way for filmmakers to search through them.

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    • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

      Originally posted by Twofingeredtypist View Post
      Thanks for sharing! Sounds like Brave meets Die Hard! Not on BL yet, so can't see more, but best of luck with it!
      I was thinking more "'Home Alone' meets 'Game of Thrones.'"

      "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

      Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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      • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

        [QUOTE=thestuart;851017]
        Originally posted by cuppajoe View Post

        Yeah it destroys your average and wipes out your investment in positive reviews, but it could go the other way too with the perfect reader.
        You can get a good average torpedoed by one low rating, but one positive rating won't help you if you start with a low average.

        For example, say you get four 8's -- and then a two from someone who really hates you, your script, your manager, your logline, your genre, whatever. Your average goes from 8 (on the top 15 and in the newsletter) to 6.8 (below the threshold for either).

        If that happens, either you need to pay for more reviews and hope that they're 8's, or pull the script and start over (which is also a gamble), or just keep paying the monthly dues and hope that someone else discovers your script and gives it a good rating, even though it's now "under water" and thus not visible.

        OTOH, if you got four 2's and then an 8 you only get a bump to 3.2, which makes no difference at all.

        So it seems like you should be able to protect against the downside in some way -- so long as the total number of ratings is so low that one can "break you."

        The current BL system requires a significant investment. But any positive "return" on that investment (in the form of a good paid review) seems unduly at risk. It's like some kind of sadistic casino game.
        "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

        Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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        • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

          [QUOTE=LauriD;851041]
          Originally posted by thestuart View Post

          You really can get a good average torpedoed by one low rating, but one positive one won't help you that much if you have a string of low ones.

          For example, say you get four 8's -- and then a two from someone who really hates you, your script, your manager, your logline, your genre, whatever. Your average goes from 8 (on the top 15 and in the newsletter) to 6.8 (below the threshold for either).

          If that happens, either you need to pay for more reviews and hope that they're 8's, or pull the script and start over (which is also a gamble), or just keep paying the monthly dues and hope that someone else discovers your script and gives it a good rating, even though it's now "under water" and thus not visible.

          OTOH, if you got four 2's and then an 8 you only get a bump to 3.2, which makes no difference at all.

          So it seems like you should be able to protect against the downside in some way -- so long as the total number of ratings is so low that one can "break you."

          The current BL system requires a significant investment. But any positive "return" on that investment (in the form of a good paid review) seems unduly at risk. It's like some kind of sadistic casino game.
          Spot on. You don't just lose your rating, you lose the good reviews you've invested in.

          Do you hit, stand, double down or split.
          Script Revolution - A free to use script hosting website that offers screenwriters a platform to promote their scripts and a way for filmmakers to search through them.

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          • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

            http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/blac...-deals-sealed/
            "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


            http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

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            • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

              I'm not disputing that there have been some good BL results, and I hope there are a lot more.

              For example, I got bumped off the top 15, but I've still got 18 downloads, and any one of them could turn into something. Or not.

              It's just that it seems like the level of risk, given the expense, is unduly high and could and should be reduced.
              "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

              Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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              • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                I'm not disputing that there have been some good BL results, and I hope there are a lot more.

                For example, I got bumped off the top 15, but I've still got 18 downloads, and any one of them could turn into something. Or not.

                It's just that it seems like the level of risk, given the expense, is unduly high and could and should be reduced.
                Yeah, I hope there's a lot more too. As Franklin stated at the start, a rising tide and all that. Everyone, from the writer to the ticket buyer, is better off if good scripts are getting made.
                Script Revolution - A free to use script hosting website that offers screenwriters a platform to promote their scripts and a way for filmmakers to search through them.

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                • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                  Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
                  and this is different from being read at any agency, management company, or production company/studio how?
                  It seems to me like there's a huge difference.

                  A reader employed by a production company, either on staff or in a permanent freelance position, has a reputation to protect. I would imagine it's worse to give a negative review of a good script than champion a mediocre one, as far as professional credibility goes.

                  How accountable are the BL reviewers? (apologies if this has been answered in the massive BL threads that already exist).

                  Also, and I do not mean this negatively in any way (I support both the BL as an improved vetting process and wish LauriD the best of luck) but-

                  Doesn't it seem like you're almost courting a bad review to 'knock you down a peg' with public threads and blog posts that could be misconstrued as bragging?

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                  • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post

                    Doesn't it seem like you're almost courting a bad review to 'knock you down a peg' with public threads and blog posts that could be misconstrued as bragging?
                    Could be.

                    But there's also the possibility that promoting your work publicly will get you more downloads -- people want to see for themselves what all the fuss is about.

                    It's a trade-off.

                    So I'd be interested to know how many downloads people on the top 15 who haven't promoted their work are getting.... (And of course, this is also highly logline-and-genre dependent.)
                    "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                    Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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                    • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                      Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                      How accountable are the BL reviewers?
                      Well BL3 itself is accountable I guess, it lives or dies by it's reviews being satisfactory to both writers and industry members. Franklin seems to spearhead it all, it's kinda his reputation on the line in a way.

                      It must be a very difficult thing to balance. You've got writers who want fair and detailed reviews fast and at the lowest cost possible, readers who want to get paid as much as possible and be given time to read and industry members who want the reviews to be consistently accurate. Plus on top of that BL3 has to actually turn profit to survive.
                      Script Revolution - A free to use script hosting website that offers screenwriters a platform to promote their scripts and a way for filmmakers to search through them.

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                      • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                        Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                        I was thinking more "'Home Alone' meets 'Game of Thrones.'"

                        Good call!
                        @MacBullitt

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                        • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                          Originally posted by The Dark Shape View Post
                          I got an 8. I'm going to Disneyland!

                          (And I officially hate all y'all overachievers.)
                          Congratulations!! I remember the feeling when I first got one
                          "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                          • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                            First an apology for the length of this post, but I think it's worth reading.

                            Maybe I need to reread the whole thread, but has anyone actually had the experience that keeps being bruited about ... three or four really good scores being dragged down by one extremely bad one? It seems rather unlikely.

                            Let's look at a couple of scenarios that have been mentioned. First, the case where two paid reviews diverge wildly in their evaluation, for example a 4 and an 8. Well, which one is right? It's really not much more than a "he said, she said" situation, so there aren't any grounds for pissing and moaning about how the poor review is "wrong." The only real remedy is to take a third review and see where that falls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember Franklin saying that if your paid reviews differed by more than 3 (or something) he gave you a discounted third read. Seems like a reasonable approach (although there could definitely be an a argument for making that third read free).

                            Now if that third read agrees with the lower score (5 or less) I would argue that it's time to shut up and be grateful that your one good review might get you into the Friday emails.

                            If the third read agrees with the positive review (7+), then I think you have good reason to approach Franklin again about the one poor review. I can't recall anyone actually encountering this situation, so the best we can do is ask him what he would do in this situation. Franklin, what say you?

                            And then there is the most likely outcome. The third review falls right in the middle of the other two (6). What does this mean? Well, I would argue that it means both the other reviews are "correct." Look at it this way, maybe one reader loved the premise or story so much that they gave it an 8 because they felt those elements outweighed the script's other problems. Another felt the poor dialog, structure, or whatever so significantly hampered the script as to make it poor overall. And the third averaged the two effects to come down in the middle. There is nothing wrong with this. This is how the evaluations are supposed to work and this script with both problems and some very good elements is going to go out in a Friday email to anyone looking for those good elements and stay off the radar of people who are only interested in scripts that are the whole package.

                            Now let's go back to the original question: What about a script whose high overall rating (from multiple reviews) is brought down by one bad (and presumably undeserved) low score. The thing is, if this low score is from an industry member, Franklin has very limited control. Part of the reason the whole BL thing works is because the industry pros can trust that they're seeing all actual reactions to the script, not just those the author likes. After all, that is sort of the point of the BL. The only possible way to address this situation would be to separate industry and paid reviews as two scores. That is far from perfect since I imagine that most industry members would give far more weight to the opinions of other industry members, meaning that the remedy could hurt authors more than it helps. I suppose another possibility is that if one outlier rating pulls a script down, Franklin could offer to re-include it on his emails to make up for the fact that it is now fairly invisible. I do think the BL should keep track of industry members who give outlying scores and if a pattern emerges that indicates someone is merely acting as a spoiler, they need to address that in some way.

                            A far more likely scenario is several industry rating sixes doing just enough to take a highly rated script off the top uploaded list. Remember, Michaelb said that he doesn't worry about this if he's already downloaded thanks to the emails. And for those that do care and don't download? Yes, this is a good example of Hollywood's herd mentality, but hey, the BL makes no claims about changing that. It can't and if it did try, it would lose credibility with the very people you want to put their eyes on your script. This is an important point.

                            The BL isn't perfect and it never will be, but before we complain we should remember that in order to function, it has to serve both authors and industry and any changes that help one side may impair it for the other and thus destroy its overall utility.

                            That hurts everyone.

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                            • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                              @tinlizzie -- well thought out and articulated post. Agree with it all! That is until I get a low/high score mix! :-)

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                              • Re: I got a 9 on the Black List -- now what?

                                Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                                But there's also the possibility that promoting your work publicly will get you more downloads.
                                Love ya, Laurie - you seem like a rockin cuel grrrl and a smart, promising writer, but here's where this whole BL thing sucks low-hanging donkey grapes, imo.

                                $75 for this b.s.?

                                Send queries with a kickarsh logline, and you'll likely get more than 18 "downloads". All of them FREE. No hustling for "publicity" required.

                                One bad score torpedoing your investment... the very first success story revealed to be an employee... only 3 other "success stories" out of literally thousands of submissions...

                                Something about all this continues to smell of poorly washed crotch.

                                At least for now.

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