New character description?

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  • New character description?

    Hi

    Just wondering here. If you're introducing a main character for the first time, but they're in the dark and hardly visible, do you need to wait until they are visible before you describe them, or should you just go ahead and do it straightaway - whether they're distinguishable or not?

    Many thanks
    Zarks
    "Now we're getting someplace".
    Oliver Hardy, 'The Music Box'.

  • #2
    Re: New character description?

    No, describe it the same way the cinema audience will see it.

    Identify him when he's revealed.

    However I wouldn't keep a "main character" in the shadows too long!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New character description?

      OK - Cool. We see him properly on page 2. In the first he's spying on his ex-wife from her darkened night-time garden. I name him on page 1 as he talks to her on a cell phone, but don't describe him until page 2 when he returns to the main night-lit street. So it's not a long time.

      Thanks
      "Now we're getting someplace".
      Oliver Hardy, 'The Music Box'.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New character description?

        However you do it, make me want it. Want to know who that character is in the shadows.

        This is the key to your career. Making them want it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New character description?

          Originally posted by zarker99 View Post
          Hi

          Just wondering here. If you're introducing a main character for the first time, but they're in the dark and hardly visible, do you need to wait until they are visible before you describe them, or should you just go ahead and do it straightaway - whether they're distinguishable or not?

          Many thanks
          Zarks
          A principle should be "described" when they are introduced.

          Remember two things, 1) your "description" should involve more of what kind of a persona the character is and less of what they look like (tall, short, skinny, fat, bald, long hair, blue eyes or green) or how they may be attired; and 2) an introductory paragraph isn't part of your narrative, it is an aside to your narrative, written for the express convenience of a reader (the audience doesn't ever read your script) to give them some advance notice of what they might expect from this character behavior- and attitude-wise as the story unfolds.

          The fact that the audience can't see your character very well when you introduce them is irrelevant to the purpose of introducing them. The introduction is for your reader (and later for the actor and the director), not your audience. The introductory SCENE is for your audience.
          Last edited by FADE IN; 05-31-2009, 10:27 PM. Reason: spelling

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New character description?

            As an aside, don't talk about their hair or eye color unless it's vital to the plot. It's limiting and tells the reader basically nothing about the character.
            "Your intuition knows what to write, so get out of the way.-
            ― Ray Bradbury

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New character description?

              Originally posted by zarker99 View Post
              Hi

              Just wondering here. If you're introducing a main character for the first time, but they're in the dark and hardly visible, do you need to wait until they are visible before you describe them, or should you just go ahead and do it straightaway - whether they're distinguishable or not?

              Many thanks
              Zarks
              The answer depends on whether you want to mislead and then reveal who this character is. So, if he's in the shadows - I'm guessing it's for a reason - describe it as such.

              When the character is seen fully for the first time that's when I would give their 'essence' description.

              Keeping him in the shadows can create interest and intrigue, it's a great plot device when used well. It can also create a great character introduction moment that will have an A-lister dying to take on the role.

              FA4
              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New character description?

                Originally posted by zarker99 View Post
                Hi

                Just wondering here. If you're introducing a main character for the first time, but they're in the dark and hardly visible, do you need to wait until they are visible before you describe them, or should you just go ahead and do it straightaway - whether they're distinguishable or not?

                Many thanks
                Zarks

                I usually advise to write the screenplay as the audience would see it in a theater. Describe the main character when they're visible, since that's the first time the audience would see him (or her). Reveal the mastermind of the evil plot at the same point in the story the audience would have that revelation as they sit in the theater. IMO, one of the most important things you can do for your script is to give the reader the same experience as someone watching the film... you want them to see it in their head as they read.

                Hope this helps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New character description?

                  Please, please don't make him/her a mysterious character in a long overcoat.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New character description?

                    Originally posted by jwillis81 View Post
                    I usually advise to write the screenplay as the audience would see it in a theater. Describe the main character when they're visible, since that's the first time the audience would see him (or her). Reveal the mastermind of the evil plot at the same point in the story the audience would have that revelation as they sit in the theater. IMO, one of the most important things you can do for your script is to give the reader the same experience as someone watching the film... you want them to see it in their head as they read.

                    Hope this helps.
                    Nobody seems to be getting this so I'll say it a second time.

                    A paragraph you write that introduces a principle character does NOT directly describe something the audience is going to see on that beat; the paragraph is an aside from your narrative intended to inform a reader about the character's personality or character or perhaps even physical traits or attributes that will have some bearing on their role in the story. It is a traditional way or giving a reader some way to form general expectations about the character. The audience will never read that paragraph.

                    They will of course see the character as they appear on the screen.

                    Hence, there's no need to correlate an introductory paragraph with a plain view of the character, whereas there is reason to correlate with the characters first appearance, whether they are entirely visible to the audience or not.

                    What we give the audience is a character's introductory SCENE, which, in the case of a character who's largely invisible in their first appearance, as was predicated to be the case here, doesn't amount to an introductory SCENE at all, just more of a shadowy figure somewhere over there.

                    But we can assume that at some point this shadowy largely unseen character is going to be fully revealed, and when that occurs, it'll constitute their introductory SCENE.

                    You are dead right that, as Robert Towne once said, a screenwriter should write his or her screenplay in exactly the way an audience would see it on the screen; that's not only a good idea it is THE ONLY idea.

                    Except ... when we include asides to our reader, which don't occur very often but aren't entirely unknown, especially as regards a character introduction. And here let me quote from David Trottier's "Screenwriter's Bible," page 126:

                    When a character first appears in the script, you have an opportunity to suggest something of his/her nature. In most cases we do not need to know the character's height, weight, hair color or the fact that she looks exactly like Cher. Do not give a driver's licence description of your character and do not pin the name of a famous actor or actress on your character because this limits who can star in your screenplay.

                    Mr. Trottier goes on to provide a sample description of a character from his script "TABLOID." Then he picks it up with this,

                    Yes, we take certain liberties here, but so can you. This is one of the few places where you can.

                    And by "places" he means any one of your introductory paragraphs, of which you should have one for each of your principles, and a sentence or two for your supporting cast. And the reason you can "take certain liberties" in these paragraphs is because they are not part of the narrative you're writing to describe your movie, they are separate from that.

                    There's absolutely no reason in the world that such paragraphs have to be presented in your script at a time when the subject character is visible to the audience. These paragraphs aren't relevant to the audience. They are only relevant to a reader.

                    Generally, I think it'd be kind of weird to include a DARK FIGURE or a MASKED FIGURE who is slated to become a principle player in the story and NOT include their introductory description right then and instead wait a few scenes or until the next scene or whenever this character's fully seen, and include it at that point.

                    I can envision circumstances where this might not be the way to go, if for example, the DARK FIGURE was referred to only in passing sans any notable emphasis or attention at all, but then I think I'd refer back to the character when I did introduce him later when he was completely visible.

                    This is HUBERT MONTGOMERY, the dark figure seen earlier. He's a paunchy mid-forties chain smoking kinda guy with a penchant for kinky sex and porno movies. Not really very likeable.

                    But my impression of the OP was that the DARK FIGURE did get some notable attention or emphasis, and hence my conclusion that they should be introduced at that point, which is the point at which a reader would become fully aware of them.

                    Cheers, eh?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New character description?

                      Originally posted by FADE IN View Post
                      Nobody seems to be getting this so I'll say it a second time.
                      Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't mean they didn't understand what you mean. Nor does it make you right and them wrong and visa versa.

                      The page that you reference in The Screenwriter's Bible does speak to the first time the character appears, IMHO, I read it as the first time the character is fully seen. Screenwriting books are guidelines and are not meant to be taken literally word for word. There are always exceptions.

                      The OP appears to want to hide the character for a short period of time. At least that's what I read into his post.

                      He can write it any way he chooses. It's his screenplay, and we are here to simply offer opinions. And let him be the judge.

                      In screenwriting there are few absolutes. There can be - and often are - many ways to skin the cat.

                      FA4
                      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New character description?

                        Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                        Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't mean they didn't understand what you mean. Nor does it make you right and them wrong and visa versa.

                        The page that you reference in The Screenwriter's Bible does speak to the first time the character appears, IMHO, I read it as the first time the character is fully seen. Screenwriting books are guidelines and are not meant to be taken literally word for word. There are always exceptions.

                        The OP appears to want to hide the character for a short period of time. At least that's what I read into his post.

                        He can write it any way he chooses. It's his screenplay, and we are here to simply offer opinions. And let him be the judge.

                        In screenwriting there are few absolutes. There can be - and often are - many ways to skin the cat.

                        FA4
                        This is true, of course.

                        But it doesn't change the fact that a character intro paragraph isn't part of one's narrative description of their movie and is an aside to a reader and hence doesn't necessarily have a relationship to when the character is fully seen.

                        I did indicate the idea that either way (initially or wait until the chacter's fully seen) could well be acceptable depending on the extent of focus on the dark figure initially. That meant both ways would be acceptable but are dependent upon the circumstances as to choosing one or the other.

                        Writing is about making choices but our choices must have the right predicates, else we risk making the wrong ones. In this case, it occurred to me this was the problem, the predicate being whether a character intro paragraph's part or not part of one's narrative, which was the point many didn't seem to be grasping. The point of my post was to clarify that question, not to tell someone how to write their script.

                        Hiding a character from the audience is one thing, hiding them from a reader is another.

                        Cheers, eh?
                        Last edited by FADE IN; 06-21-2009, 07:23 AM. Reason: fix typos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New character description?

                          Originally posted by FADE IN View Post
                          This is true, of course.

                          But it doesn't change the fact that a character intro paragraph isn't part of one's narrative description of their movie and is an aside to a reader and hence doesn't necessarily have a relationship to when the character is fully seen.

                          I did indicate the idea that either way (initially or wait until the chacter's fully seen) could well be acceptable depending on the extent of focus on the dark figure initially. That meant both ways would be acceptable but are dependent upon the circumstances as to choosing one or the other.

                          Writing is about making choices but our choices must have the right predicates, else we risk making the wrong ones. In this case, it occurred to me this was the problem, the predicate being whether a character intro paragraph's part or not part of one's narrative, which was the point many didn't seem to be grasping. The point of my post was to clarify that question, not to tell someone how to write their script.

                          Hiding a character from the audience is one thing, hiding them from a reader is another.

                          Cheers, eh?

                          Cheers, Mate!
                          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New character description?

                            Originally posted by FADE IN View Post
                            But it doesn't change the fact that a character intro paragraph isn't part of one's narrative description of their movie and is an aside to a reader and hence doesn't necessarily have a relationship to when the character is fully seen.


                            ... the predicate being whether a character intro paragraph's part or not part of one's narrative, which was the point many didn't seem to be grasping. The point of my post was to clarify that question, not to tell someone how to write their script.

                            Hiding a character from the audience is one thing, hiding them from a reader is another.
                            It's hard for me to imagine an instance when you would want to hide a character from the audience and not hide that character from the Reader.

                            Hey Fade, It seems that we all agree as Robert Towne once said, a screenwriter should write his or her screenplay in exactly the way an audience would see it on the screen; that's not only a good idea it is THE ONLY idea.

                            With that in mind, although asides to the Reader can reveal certain character traits the audience will not be aware of at the time, asides should not prematurely reveal an important story beat to the Reader.

                            Don't ruin the story for the Reader. Let the Reader enjoy the story as it unfolds, just like the audience will.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New character description?

                              Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                              It's hard for me to imagine an instance when you would want to hide a character from the audience and not hide that character from the Reader.
                              The best way to do that is just leave them out. I mean, really ...

                              Readers are smart enough to know that an introductory paragraph doesn't unhide a character you've hidden from the audience. They disassociate.

                              Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                              Hey Fade, It seems that we all agree as Robert Towne once said, a screenwriter should write his or her screenplay in exactly the way an audience would see it on the screen; that's not only a good idea it is THE ONLY idea.
                              Indeed it is; however, we have those pesky little character introductions in there, which aren't an element of your narrative. Mr. Town's advice is good, no doubt about it, but ... there's more to it than that, albeit it isn't much more, it's still more.

                              Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                              With that in mind, although asides to the Reader can reveal certain character traits the audience will not be aware of at the time, asides should not prematurely reveal an important story beat to the Reader.

                              Don't ruin the story for the Reader. Let the Reader enjoy the story as it unfolds, just like the audience will.
                              The're no room in a character introduction for story beats.

                              The placement of a paragraph that introduces a character is the question here, whether one elects to include it when the character's only seen as a shadowy figure or a masked one or something, or to wait until they are seen full blown.

                              My sense of this is that the decision should be based upon the extent of attention that's paid to the shadowy or masked figure; if such is only in passing, well, then, waiting until the character's fully seen and has some presence in a scene would likely be the way to go; but if it's more than just in passing, the right choice might be do do it right there. It'd almost be as if you were saying "Psst, hey reader, quiet as it's kept, this shadowy figure is actually HERMAN SLOWTIK, a man in his fifties who ..."

                              And if you do it later, you'll almost have to refer back to the shadowy figure and indicate that this character you're introducing is one and the same, as I showed in an example up thread. Otherwise, the shadowy figure becomes a non-entity ("who was that masked man?").

                              I'm a little puzzled as to the need to depict a main character in such a diminutive manner in their initial appearance, to refer to them as a "dark figure" and only do so in passing. What's that all about? What purpose does it serve? I realize that anything's possible, but the question does arise.

                              I think that'd be a lot more puzzling to a reader than any notion that presenting the character introduction at that point would "ruin the story" for them or reveal any story beat. Reader's disassociate introductions, they know they're not part of the story narrative.

                              Onward!

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