"We see"

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  • #61
    Re: "We see"

    Originally posted by sarajb View Post
    "We see" can be (and often is) used with painstaking care, with more than simply not-annoying-the-reader results.

    It is a matter of taste and style, but purpose, too, which is why it's difficult to sit back, while someone says using "we see" is lazy writing and in all instances should be stricken and replaced with something better.
    Right. And more purpose than anything else. Someone used THE SIXTH SENSE as an example. M. Night peppers the script with WE SEE so much it could've been written in braille. But the manner in which he inserts them, they're well placed and fit seamlessly into the all-important spine of the story. The moral, I guess, is to use at will but never ever frivolously.
    "I ask every producer I meet if they need TV specs they say yeah. They all want a 40 inch display that's 1080p and 120Hz. So, I quit my job at the West Hollywood Best Buy."
    - Screenwriting Friend

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    • #62
      Re: "We see"

      Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
      Jeff said: I've got a scene in a movie that starts on a dog going for a drive - sticking his head out of the window of a car, his ears blowing back, the scenery rushing by behind him. We pull back to see that it's just a car door propped up, the wind is coming from a large fan, and the scenery is a movie projected on the walls of the room.

      FADE IN:

      INT. AUTOMOBILE - DAY

      A German Shepard moves restlessly in the passenger seat. Its head
      is through the open window, the wind flapping the dogs jowls.

      Yucca trees wizz by.

      INT. SOUND STAGE -

      The automobile, a sleek towncar, is parked and huge fans . . .

      This doesn't read right, in my opinion. It's confusing. The new slug creates a scene cut and put's reader's mind in an entirely new location. In addition, the opening visual is completely different to how Jeff originally envisioned it. His intent was clear:

      Open on the dog's head out of a car window, tongue flapping in the wind. PULL BACK to reveal that it isn't real a car...

      A new slug is a cut.

      The job of the screenwriter should be to create the experience of the movie on the page.
      -- Another Writer

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      • #63
        Re: "We see"

        roscoegino says, "M. Night peppers the script with WE SEE so much ... But the manner in which he inserts them, they're well placed and fit seamlessly into the all-important spine of the story."

        -- roscoegino, I went to The Weekly Script site to look at the final draft of "Sixth Sense" to see what you may be reffering to, but after 15 pages I didn't see one "we see" phrase.

        Since you've obviously read the script you'll know exactly on what pages they're at, so could you give me an example from "Sixth Sense" that demonstrates what you're talking about, thanks?

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        • #64
          Re: "We see"

          The whole "use to a minimum" rule doesn't carry much weight with me anymore simply because writing is an artform and not carpentry. Maximum may fit your story better. Who knows?
          sigpic

          "I'm gonna run ya ragged!"

          "YEE HAWWW!!!"

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          • #65
            Re: "We see"

            yeah
            sigpic

            "I'm gonna run ya ragged!"

            "YEE HAWWW!!!"

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            • #66
              Re: "We see"

              Originally posted by AnotherWriter View Post
              This doesn't read right, in my opinion. It's confusing. The new slug creates a scene cut and put's reader's mind in an entirely new location. In addition, the opening visual is completely different to how Jeff originally envisioned it. His intent was clear:

              Open on the dog's head out of a car window, tongue flapping in the wind. PULL BACK to reveal that it isn't real a car...

              A new slug is a cut.

              The job of the screenwriter should be to create the experience of the movie on the page.
              I caught it and edited my post to the following, which is similiar to the Chinatown opening, which does use a new slug to reveal the actual scene. In my opinion, using a new slug rather than a "we see" to reveal what is really happening is a better way to write it. And Jeff did pose a challenge.

              FULL SCREEN DOG'S HEAD

              A German Shepard faces a strong wind through an open car
              window. Its jowls flap.

              Yucca trees wizz by.

              INT. SOUND STAGE -

              The dog's head protrudes through the window of
              a car door propped up, unattached to a car.

              Huge fans . . .

              P.S. The new slug does create a scene cut, but I would argue that all Scene Headings create a scene cut, and that is our job, to move, or rather take the reader from scene to scene.

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              • #67
                Re: "We see"

                Personally, I wish I'd never read all these threads over the years
                here discussing "We See" because I always get this nauseating
                feel when I'm engrossed in a script and "We See" suddenly pops
                up and kicks me in the stomach. It did that recently with a Todd
                Haynes script I was reading, the one with Julianna Moore, that he
                directed himself. I thought the writing was exquisite and then, well,
                those two words hit me.

                One of the type of scenes I hate seeing "We See" in is in a scene
                where there is a character alone and the reader is witnessing this
                very personal moment with the character as though you're a peeping
                tom and then "We see". WE? Hey, it's only me and the character, dude,
                get the hell out of here.

                As for the dog in the fake window scene, maybe write it
                to reveal the sound stage with something like...



                On the dog's tail as it wags across the face of an
                exasperated MOVIE STAGE HAND as he crouches behind the
                dog trying to keep a fake car door upright.
                myhomeconvalesceblog

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                • #68
                  Re: "We see"

                  Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                  FULL SCREEN DOG'S HEAD

                  A German Shepard faces a strong wind through an open car
                  window. Its jowls flap.

                  Yucca trees wizz by.

                  INT. SOUND STAGE -

                  The dog's head protrudes through the window of
                  a car door propped up, unattached to a car.

                  Huge fans . . .

                  P.S. The new slug does create a scene cut, but I would argue that all Scene Headings create a scene cut, and that is our job, to move, or rather take the reader from scene to scene.
                  Again, upon initial read, this is confusing and jarring to me -- in my opinion. It's not explicit enough. Although, it can be remedied with something like "The dog's head is actually protruding through the window of a propped up car door..."

                  I hear what you are saying. But, again, the reveal is different to how Jeff may have preferred it. A PULL BACK will offer a different kind of reveal to a cut to a wide (via a new slug).

                  Like Jeff has already said, the script gives the writer the opportunity to tell the movie as has how he/she envisioned it in his/her head. And, to the writer, a PULL BACK may offer a more comedic/dramatic reveal as opposed to a straight scene cut.

                  It's a judgment call for the writer to make.

                  All of these "alternatives" writers here are offering sans the CAMERA ANGLE and WE SEE do create a different visual. The content may be the same, but its execution -- how it's communicated visually -- is subtlely different. As a writer, you should know how your words are being communicated -- what filmic cuts, transitions, images they are creating in the reader's, mind's eye.

                  They are stylistic choices -- and tools that a writer can use to truely create the experience of movie on the page.
                  -- Another Writer

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                  • #69
                    Re: "We see"

                    Originally posted by Scripted77 View Post
                    Title in weird font
                    You have two f-bombs in your script, making it unsellable/unmarketable in today's PG-13 world
                    Funny -- horrors sell very well and they have quite a few f bombs.
                    Also funny -- many scripts go out and sell with a variety of fonts for the title.

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                    • #70
                      Re: "We see"

                      We see a glass of wine. We drink it. At least, I drink it.

                      Re: Jeff and LaFemme's points: I get where both of you are coming from.

                      Though I don't think a little of anything will kill anyone, I suspect there are things you could probably get away more of with once you breakout, because of the simple perception that you're a professional.

                      An a-list writer could (maybe) put a picture of his/her dog in a script, and everyone would know it's a gag. But if a new writer did this, the script'd probably be tossed.

                      Who knows? But either way, donuts are good, and so's the thread.
                      https://actbreakdown.com

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                      • #71
                        Re: "We see"

                        Originally posted by AnotherWriter View Post
                        Again, upon initial read, this is confusing and jarring to me -- in my opinion. It's not explicit enough. Although, it can be remedied with something like "The dog's head is actually protruding through the window of a propped up car door..."

                        I hear what you are saying. But, again, the reveal is different to how Jeff may have preferred it. A PULL BACK will offer a different kind of reveal to a cut to a wide (via a new slug).

                        Like Jeff has already said, the script gives the writer the opportunity to tell the movie as has how he/she envisioned it in his/her head. And, to the writer, a PULL BACK may offer a more comedic/dramatic reveal as opposed to a straight scene cut.

                        It's a judgment call for the writer to make.

                        All of these "alternatives" writers here are offering sans the CAMERA ANGLE and WE SEE do create a different visual. The content may be the same, but its execution -- how it's communicated visually -- is subtlely different. As a writer, you should know how your words are being communicated -- what filmic cuts, transitions, images they are creating in the reader's, mind's eye.

                        They are stylistic choices -- and tools that a writer can use to truely create the experience of movie on the page.
                        Hey, AnotherWriter, good points. I guess that's what it all boils down to.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: "We see"

                          Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                          Sarajb says, "'We see' can be (and often is) used with painstaking care..."

                          -- You're acting like the phrase "we see" is god-like.
                          No, I'm not.

                          I'm telling you there are writers who don't throw in a "we see", because they're settling on sufficient. They do it deliberately, because they feel it's the best way to present whatever instance they're using it for.
                          Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

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                          • #73
                            Re: "We see"

                            So, we should use "we see" or we shouldn't.

                            I see.
                            TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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                            • #74
                              Re: "We see"

                              To me, all the examples are less clear - it's like doing gymnastics to avoid breaking a rule that doesn't even exist.

                              Chinatown has an opening somewhat like yours, but without explicit camera direction.

                              THIRD DRAFT
                              October 9, 1973

                              1 FULL SCREEN PHOTOGRAPH

                              grainy but unmistakably a man and woman making love.
                              Photograph shakes. SOUND of a man MOANING in anguish.
                              The photograph is dropped, REVEALING ANOTHER, MORE
                              compromising one. Then another, and another. More moans.

                              CURLY'S VOICE
                              (crying out)
                              Oh, no.

                              2 INT. GITTES' OFFICE

                              CURLY drops the photos on Gittes' desk. Curly towers
                              over GITTES and sweats heavily through his workman's
                              clothes, his breathing progressively more labored. A
                              drop plunks on Gittes' shiny desk top.

                              Gittes notes it. A fan whiffs overhead. Gittes glances
                              up at it. He looks cool and brisk in a white linen suit
                              despite the heat. Never taking his eyes off Curly, he
                              lights a cigarette using a lighter with a "nail" on
                              his desk.
                              This is great.

                              It's also filled with camera directions. The first three words ("FULL SCREEN PHOTOGRAPH") are about as explicit as camera directions get. The photo dropping, REVEALING another photo, is a camera direction. Cutting from the photos to the scene already in progress is a camera direction. This section without camera directions would open "INT. GITTES' OFFICE."

                              So thank you - sometimes really great writing requires camera direction.

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                              • #75
                                Re: "We see"

                                I like the way you stand and fight alone Jeff. In itself an essential skill for any writer.

                                Sure, quite a number of writers use "we see" in an opening, but we're not involved yet, it starts at an objective, usually visual distance and moves in.

                                The problem with newbies is if you give them an inch, they take a mile.

                                Really only use it for certain specific visual descriptions, but the idea is to bring them in and keep them there. And "we see" has the effect of removing from involvement.

                                But I don't understand why la femme has regurgitated such an old and worn debate.

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