How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

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  • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
    All right, Upandcoming, I think I've got it. You use STC to provide structure but not plot, and you rely on it to supply "the key stages of character development," but not character.
    Sure, that's a fair assessment. It's not hard to see the distinction between the two sets of elements. Here are examples:

    *Structure: Consider "Fun and Games". As I indicated before, this at its most basic, just means fulfilling the promise of the movie's premise. Thus, the meat of the movie, the set-pieces that you'll see in the movie's trailer. It essentially covers the first half of Act Two. That's 30 pages. There's a lot of variety and originality that can happen within 30 pages. STC then proceeds to provide more granular details with regards to what should happen in terms of plot specifically, but I think that's where the author gets overly prescriptive. Thus, I don't pay attention to it.

    *Character Development: STC highlights the key, broad stages of character development I described previously, which I've found useful. But it also gives many specifics on character that I don't think are necessary and don't follow. The most high-profile among them is that we need to see the main character do something sympathetic in order to want to follow him throughout the movie. I don't agree with this; I just think it's important that the main character is relatable in some way.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Last edited by UpandComing; 11-21-2015, 08:28 AM.
    "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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    • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

      To me, even the very basic things you're saying are restrictive. The set pieces that deliver on the premise should go in the first 30 pages of the second act? Yikes. I disagree with that in about a dozen ways. (Mostly that if I wait 30 or so pages to get to the "meat of the movie," and then I have roughly 60 pages more to go after it's over, I don't think I could write something remotely interesting.)

      A protagonist has to go on a journey, realize his flaw, make progress towards fixing it, regress, reach a low point, then rebound and overcome it? You've just spelled out seven turns a character has to make. I would never want to be locked into that. I can think of a lot more great movies where that doesn't happen than where it does.

      But if laying down those tracks is getting your scripts to a place where you're happy with them, then there's no reason to change. For me, it seems like madness. For you, maybe it's working great.

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      • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
        To me, even the very basic things you're saying are restrictive. The set pieces that deliver on the premise should go in the first 30 pages of the second act? Yikes. I disagree with that in about a dozen ways. (Mostly that if I wait 30 or so pages to get to the "meat of the movie," and then I have roughly 60 pages more to go after it's over, I don't think I could write something remotely interesting.)

        A protagonist has to go on a journey, realize his flaw, make progress towards fixing it, regress, reach a low point, then rebound and overcome it? You've just spelled out seven turns a character has to make. I would never want to be locked into that. I can think of a lot more great movies where that doesn't happen than where it does.

        But if laying down those tracks is getting your scripts to a place where you're happy with them, then there's no reason to change. For me, it seems like madness. For you, maybe it's working great.
        Character development is a complex thing, so it's actually not as restrictive as you're making it sound. But you're right, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the other. Glad we can acknowledge that.
        Last edited by UpandComing; 11-21-2015, 11:56 AM.
        "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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        • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

          There are a lot of things that decide a story's complexity. Most screenwriting coaches don't talk about those:
          • Is it a linear or a non-linear story?
          • Is there one main character, two main characters or multiple main characters?
          • Is it a genre story or does it combine several (more than two) genres?
          • Does it show the main character trapped in a system with several antagonists representing different aspects of said system or not?
          • Does it use a unique moral argument or a standard one (for example the simple good vs. evil or the classic tragedy)
          The "postmodern" approach tries to deconstruct stories, applying nonlinear structures, with more than one hero, sometimes with no arcs, and mostly anti-plot. Some people seem to have a disdain for structure, which is clearly a disdain for content, since structure is the way you express your story's meaning.

          Structure doesn't mean restrictive in any way. There are a lot of ways to express yourself, but you have to choose wisely and actually have something to tell, even if it's small! Even if it's just parents visiting their children. Hell, a Jackie Chan movie like RUMBLE IN THE BRONX might not have the most clever moral argument, but it still works.

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          • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

            Originally posted by Centos View Post
            And there you go. The self-fulfilling prophecy. Basically summarized as follows.

            The "template" guarantees high quality writing BUT, since I obviously haven't sold anything (using these "high quality," "can't fail" templates) then the system is rigged against me.

            Of course this totally ignores the fact that professional screenwriters -- those who make their money selling screenplays -- broke into the business somehow. And they weren't using "Save the Cat" crap.
            I am not using templates to write my stories. All I'm saying is, that you have to be a businessman aswell as a craftsman and that those skills are -- for the most part -- unrelated.

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            • Re: How can screenwriters control pace? Any thoughts on unintentional slowness?

              Originally posted by Yaso View Post
              I am not using templates to write my stories. All I'm saying is, that you have to be a businessman aswell as a craftsman and that those skills are -- for the most part -- unrelated.
              If your stuff is good enough you don't have to be a businessman. Although you do have to know how to get along with people. Here's a story about how a talented writer, Bill Marsilli, broke in. (Kind of long, but encouraging.)

              http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/scr...gi?read=123160

              Reading this long success story -- I fail see a single mention about "Save the Cat."
              STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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