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Old 01-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #11
zenplato
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

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where can i see this?
Youtube
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

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So they update the language to something more modern? I'll pass.

When I want Shakespeare, I want Shakespeare. I don't want some watered down version that insults my intelligence because some producer thinks using my brain to listen to the dialog is too hard and it needs dumbed down so I can get it.
No one's gonna rewrite HAMLET better than Shakespeare, but it's just plain incorrect to suggest that "dumbing down" is the only reason one would tell a Shakespeare story with modern dialogue.

As storytellers, we have every right to filter these narratives through our own voice. I doubt that films like WEST SIDE STORY and FORBIDDEN PLANET and THE BAD SLEEP WELL, whatever one might think of the them, were made with modern dialogue based on assumptions about the audience's intelligence.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

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I take it if you saw O! or 10 Things I Hate About You or She's the Man -- you hated them? LOL
I don't mind remakes that want to tell roughly the same story. One of my favorite movies of all time is Strange Brew which retells Hamlet, but with a couple of idiot Canadians in the place of Horatio.

What I have a problem with is a scene-by-scene alteration of the dialog because some of the language is dense. I really object to the idea of seeing Hamlet's soliloquy get changed from this:

Quote:
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them:
to this:

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Dang, life is tough. Maybe I should kill myself.
Is it better to be a bitch and live or go out like a boss?
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

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No one's gonna rewrite HAMLET better than Shakespeare, but it's just plain incorrect to suggest that "dumbing down" is the only reason one would tell a Shakespeare story with modern dialogue.

As storytellers, we have every right to filter these narratives through our own voice. I doubt that films like WEST SIDE STORY and FORBIDDEN PLANET and THE BAD SLEEP WELL, whatever one might think of the them, were made with modern dialogue based on assumptions about the audience's intelligence.
But retelling those stories through our own filter isn't the argument. It's simply rewriting the language because of an assumption that the language is too hard for modern people to get, so we'll help them out by rewriting the thing.

Elizabethan and Jacobean English aren't that hard to follow. What it doesn't allow is for the audience to multitask. It requires the audience to pay attention. I can't pick out the underlying context of what Iago is doing and try to figure out why when I'm also playing Angry Birds on my iPhone and tweeting about how hard this play is to follow. Heaven forfend that we ask the audience to really pay attention, maybe throw on the subtitles or closed captioning and use a little brainpower.

And that's before we even get into the changing of art to suit our tastes. It is just as offensive to me to even consider editing Shakespeare in the modern vernacular as it would be to paint sunglasses and a haltertop on the Mona Lisa because like that anymore and then sell that print "for modern art lovers." Maybe I'm inspired by the Mona Lisa and want to paint a portrait of a woman and that's fine, but I draw the line at replacing the background with Vasquez Rocks because we've seen those rocks in countless movies and tv shows and can somehow better relate.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

I dont know...I don't have a problem with translating Willie Shakes's words into modern day vernacular. It makes the concepts behind his writing accessible to people that otherwise might not be exposed to them, especially younger generations.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:26 PM   #16
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It isn't such a big deal: people who want to read/watch Shakespeare's original words, can.

I don't know that it's about "dumbing down". Maybe it's about making it more accessible to people who otherwise wouldn't consider reading/watching Shakespeare. And some of those people, if they like this version, might like it enough to read the original text or go to a theater performance of Hamlet or whatever.

It's not like they're taking away the original version.

But someone who watches a performance of a Shakespeare play that's been adapted to contemporary (and simpler) language will undoubtedly miss out because Shakespeare's genius isn't on plot and character alone but also on the words spoken.

I don't think it's a bad idea; certainly not worse than a remake. The original will still be available for anybody who prefers it.

@Steven R: I'm afraid you're missing the point re: your comments about art. It's not about making those artworks easier to relate to: it's about subverting a certain idea of art, of reverence to the masterpieces of great artists of the past, of a work of art as something fixed and finished; it's also about introducing a certain playfulness and irreverence. We now take those things for granted--well, maybe you don't, but there's nothing challenging about it to art students or people familiar with contemporary art--but at the time Duchamp painted a mustache on a print of the Mona Lisa, it was quite daring and controversial to defend that as art.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

i've never seen a shakespeare play for the first time and fully understood what was going on. i know alot of native english people with good credentials that can say the same. the second viewing is also difficult. it's just too fast, there's no time to reflect.
that aside, interpretations is a natural way of theatre. changing the text is not the most radical thing that has been done. i love the prose, but nothing is sacred.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

Of course, the original is my first choice but if someone's adaptation is good, their adaptation is good. I was impressed by the one I saw. YMMV.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

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But retelling those stories through our own filter isn't the argument. It's simply rewriting the language because of an assumption that the language is too hard for modern people to get, so we'll help them out by rewriting the thing.

Elizabethan and Jacobean English aren't that hard to follow. What it doesn't allow is for the audience to multitask. It requires the audience to pay attention. I can't pick out the underlying context of what Iago is doing and try to figure out why when I'm also playing Angry Birds on my iPhone and tweeting about how hard this play is to follow. Heaven forfend that we ask the audience to really pay attention, maybe throw on the subtitles or closed captioning and use a little brainpower.

And that's before we even get into the changing of art to suit our tastes. It is just as offensive to me to even consider editing Shakespeare in the modern vernacular as it would be to paint sunglasses and a haltertop on the Mona Lisa because like that anymore and then sell that print "for modern art lovers." Maybe I'm inspired by the Mona Lisa and want to paint a portrait of a woman and that's fine, but I draw the line at replacing the background with Vasquez Rocks because we've seen those rocks in countless movies and tv shows and can somehow better relate.
What films are you talking about that do this?
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: ShakespeaRe-Told

Hollywood (and other film centers) have already retold Shakespeare's stories in modern day versions in modern language. But, my favorite versions are always the ones where they are using one of the editions of the original plays, with actors and actresses who can do the Genius Bard's words justice.

That said, one of my fav. Shakespeare movies is "Looking For Richard" with Al Pacino and Kevin Spacey, and a whole lot of other excellent players. Not exactly line by line Shakespeare, but a great rumination on his work and themes.
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