Shooting a person

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  • #31
    Re: Shooting a person

    pipe, is there aaaah ... well an underlining reason for your question. A firearms accidents you would like to share with the group?

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    • #32
      Re: Shooting a person

      Originally posted by GI_Jeep View Post
      In most cases people do drop like a sack of potatoes after taking a round. The initial impact can take anyone off their feet including those wearing body armor.
      Not true - assuming the person isn't shot in the head or heart. There's a guy in a case I'm working on who was shot twice in the chest with a .40 caliber (one of those calibers that is purportedly great for stopping power) handgun while he was running away. Shots went right through him and he kept running until his lung collapsed, his chest cavity filled with blood and he finally died from a combination of exsanguination (mostly into the chest cavity) and suffocation from having his internal organs crushed by the filling blood. But he survived for some time and was able to run a distance that surprised me.

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      • #33
        Re: Shooting a person

        Only one way to settle this.

        We'll need some volunteers.

        Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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        • #34
          Re: Shooting a person

          Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
          Only one way to settle this.

          We'll need some volunteers.

          I think they need more information
          Rifles or handguns?
          Which calibers?
          To heck with it, let's split the difference and start here
          BFR .45/70 Gov't Revolver

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          • #35
            Re: Shooting a person

            Originally posted by sbbn View Post
            Not true - assuming the person isn't shot in the head or heart. There's a guy in a case I'm working on who was shot twice in the chest with a .40 caliber (one of those calibers that is purportedly great for stopping power) handgun while he was running away. Shots went right through him and he kept running until his lung collapsed, his chest cavity filled with blood and he finally died from a combination of exsanguination (mostly into the chest cavity) and suffocation from having his internal organs crushed by the filling blood. But he survived for some time and was able to run a distance that surprised me.
            "in most cases"

            From my experience they drop. I'm not saying some dont get up and run off due to adrenaline, fear, drugs or pure idiot strength. humans react differently to everything - including getting shot.
            "Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!- - Ghostbusters

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            • #36
              Re: Shooting a person

              Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
              Only one way to settle this.

              We'll need some volunteers.

              Anyone who uses "we see"
              "Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!- - Ghostbusters

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              • #37
                Re: Shooting a person

                Originally posted by sbbn View Post
                ... There's a guy in a case I'm working on who was shot twice in the chest with a .40 caliber (one of those calibers that is purportedly great for stopping power) handgun while he was running away. Shots went right through him...
                That means the shooter wasn't using hollow points. Regular bullets often go straight through. Hollow points rip things to shreds and stay inside. They do much more damage and more effective in stopping your target.

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                • #38
                  Re: Shooting a person

                  Originally posted by GI_Jeep View Post
                  "in most cases"

                  From my experience they drop. I'm not saying some dont get up and run off due to adrenaline, fear, drugs or pure idiot strength. humans react differently to everything - including getting shot.
                  I think it's a pretty broad generalization. I deal with quite few people getting shot and "in most cases" I see people aren't dropping from getting shot (except for the shots to head or heart) and in my experience the whole getting knocked off your feet from getting shot is pretty much garbage, at least as far as handguns go (seen a few people shot with other stuff but most of what I see is handguns).

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                  • #39
                    Re: Shooting a person

                    Originally posted by mswriterj View Post
                    That means the shooter wasn't using hollow points. Regular bullets often go straight through. Hollow points rip things to shreds and stay inside. They do much more damage and more effective in stopping your target.
                    Nope. They were .40 caliber high-grade hollow point Winchester bullets. I can't really debate what hollow tips do what compared to each other vs something like a FMJ because my experience is limited to people I've seen who have been shot but in the particular case I described the rounds were holllow-points, they went straight through, and the guy didn't drop - keep running.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Shooting a person

                      Originally posted by sbbn View Post
                      Nope. They were .40 caliber high-grade hollow point Winchester bullets. I can't really debate what hollow tips do what compared to each other vs something like a FMJ because my experience is limited to people I've seen who have been shot but in the particular case I described the rounds were holllow-points, they went straight through, and the guy didn't drop - keep running.
                      Wow. That's crazy that they went straight through! I stand corrected. I'll amend my post to say, "In theory..."

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                      • #41
                        Re: Shooting a person

                        Originally posted by sbbn View Post
                        I think it's a pretty broad generalization. I deal with quite few people getting shot and "in most cases" I see people aren't dropping from getting shot (except for the shots to head or heart) and in my experience the whole getting knocked off your feet from getting shot is pretty much garbage, at least as far as handguns go (seen a few people shot with other stuff but most of what I see is handguns).
                        Are you a trauma surgeon in a high crime city? What brings you in contact with so many gunshot victims?

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                        • #42
                          Re: Shooting a person

                          Originally posted by sbbn View Post
                          I think it's a pretty broad generalization. I deal with quite few people getting shot and "in most cases" I see people aren't dropping from getting shot (except for the shots to head or heart) and in my experience the whole getting knocked off your feet from getting shot is pretty much garbage, at least as far as handguns go (seen a few people shot with other stuff but most of what I see is handguns).
                          I'm on my 6th combat deployment. My experiences are my own and I've SEEN people get shot and immediately fall down - all the time. I've SEEN people even in body armor collapse from impact. Rarely do I see anyone keep running.

                          I'm not here to get into a pissing contest. You have your experiences as a lawyer and I have mine from fighting wars professionally. Our views and experiences are going to vary based on conditions.
                          "Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!- - Ghostbusters

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                          • #43
                            Re: Shooting a person

                            GI Jeep,

                            A) Thank you for your continuing service. Many of my friends have deployed to the sand box, may you come home safely as well.
                            B) I think they don't understand what the difference in energy/power is between a rifle like the AK-47 (7.62x39 mm) that you face, and the pistol round.

                            Pistol: Muzzle energy of a .40 S&W - 352 ft/lbs.
                            Rifle: Energy of a 7.62x39 mm at 100 yards - 1180 ft/lbs

                            For the math challenged that is 335% GREATER power in the rifle round from 100 yards away than a hot pistol round point blank.
                            If you really think that a person getting hit with more than 3x the force is going to react the same way, you are flat out wrong.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Shooting a person

                              The underlying reality of this conversation is too macabre for me.

                              Whatever has the most appropriate dramatic effect. Watch Full Metal Jacket.

                              To continue running will have a very emotional cinematic effect, but so can dropping them. There is an eerie silence when they fall. Protracted agony is dramatic as well, although not all that realistic as I've heard they don't feel pain until much later.

                              I've also heard that when people get stabbed during a fight they don't even notice.

                              Depends on what you need it to achieve.

                              (nice to see you again sbbn)

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                              • #45
                                Re: Shooting a person

                                What does David Steinberg say?

                                HH

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