Picking Right Idea

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  • #61
    Re: Picking Right Idea

    the way I approach it, it's more of a building process... as you get better at writing you'll learn [or be told] what people want to sell or buy or read or go to a theater to watch... maybe their daughter, girlfriend, best friend, son-in-law dragged them to the theater and when they filled out a card that explained why the movie was so amazing and moved up the ladder to and into the offices where it finds it's way into the hot little hands of a studio executive, who exclaims "see I've told you this is what they want!" and everyone claps in a boardroom and all of them make their assistants tell everyone that we're sailing that ship to the new horizon where we'll be rich with pirate booty.

    -also maybe-

    I might fall in love with a character and situation, but I need the right elements around them to get the right theme

    thinking about it, I do wonder if a situation like 'Adaptation' could be the 'wrong idea' in some ways, that required the writer to reach within themselves to create an even better screenplay

    I'm sure Kaufman is a big Hemingway fan, just as the Coen brothers are...
    Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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    • #62
      Re: Picking Right Idea

      I'd wish you fall in love with Capilizing the first letter of each sentence.

      Not

      this

      Random

      ness

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      • #63
        Re: Picking Right Idea

        'Done Deal' Will said it was fine to just randomly write stuff without anyone real point...

        I'll write a narrative ploy without any real expectation of making appoint, I'll just confuse the reader with obvious allegories about simpleton ideas and how the horse ate the carrot.

        Earnest, is a fine horse and could have been a pure breed, but I have no idea, riding is really where - and whispering to the ole' Philly was when - I did learn the 'secrets of picking the right winner' or idea... these glorious fine days in the meadow, galloping and trotting around, the stallion would talk to me about screenwriting and his love of the beach.

        Earnie was very insightful and broad in his shoulders, as carrying the weight of this knowledge was part of an acute fallacy, as he was dreaming of being in wars and experiencing life from a warhorse or someone thrust into action, but had little he could do about where they chose to plot his life, the horse was out to pasture and his daytime was writing and reading, dreaming about what he could be if given the chance to... a lonely mare out in a field alone, like a book on a shelf, placed there for me to find, such a majestic animal, but a true friend and a great talker.
        Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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        • #64
          Re: Picking Right Idea

          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post

          I can tell you that out of all the unsold material I read the script wouldn't be put down because of Idea. Most of us are just trying to get a dam good sample together that we can show people. Obviously a sale is great but at least get a strong sample. Scripts are put down because of character and structure. The second the reader feels this is going nowhere they put it down. We used to think there was a "ten page" rule but from what I've been hearing from writers and producers and consultants is that you have 1 - 3 pages. They will know by how you present that very first beat of your story.

          If your character doesn't have an impactful arc and if the plot doesn't pick at his wound then anyone worth a dam in this business will know by page 1. Because a character with a strong transformation will certainly speak and act differently than a character who barely changes or does not change at all.

          If you're writing in genres like rom-com, dramas, thrillers the transformation of the hero is what happens because of plot. It's the story. Every structural element should serve that story, of course scenes will have to serve other needs as well like advancing the external plot.

          You have to deliver to the reader a string of beats that will end up being your story. The reader will know after a beat or two if the beats were made by professionals or not.
          I think everything comes off the idea. So if it's a bad idea -- written great -- it's not going to sell or engage. It's all related to me.

          A good idea also invovles good structure and characters too. It's all related.

          So if your idea is a guy trapped inside his own room and he can't get out -- well that's going to be a boring read probably. BUt if your idea is a guy is trapped inside his house with a monster who just wants to tickle him to death, that's already more fun. Already the idea has generated a more fun character and structure just based on it being survive the monster story vs trapped in a single room. Just an example...

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          • #65
            Re: Picking Right Idea

            What I'm saying is that people aren't failing because they just can't pick a good idea, they fail because of craftsmanship in the script. They can't effectively do the things in their script that need to be done in a good story. I think it's because writers are serial jumpers. They don't stick with a story and put some hard, cathartic work into it. They writer a draft, polish it and then when the criticism comes in they go "You guys are right, this isn't good." And they move onto the next script which ultimately has the same fate as its predecessor because the writer will take the same route. Scripts do not sing early on. The first stuff to come out is all that superficial fluff that is not your story.

            If you are trying to write something with some real meaning behind it you need a very strong central question at the core of the story. You need to be conscious of the question and deliberately create characters who differ in opinion on what the answer should be. You never see an amateur argue a central question in their script. Never. Just like you never see character arc in an amateur script. You never see subplots that complicate the main.

            That's because those things come much later in the development process and by then the writer is onto something else.

            I've been working on a script since April, and I'm being very conscious of the things I see missing all the time in amateur scripts and getting all those pieces to work together in orchestration is dam hard and it's irritating and frustrating as hell cause you spend as much time in writers block as you do figuring out a story. I should've kept a log as to how many hours I've spent so far. I'd say ten hours per week, maybe twelve tops for the last 17 weeks. That's 170 - 200 hours.

            Most writers I work with just eventually quit on the story. They get so tired of going over the same beats over and over and over again, they get tired of trying solutions to problems and not have the pages be any better. They get so tired that they just quit. It is very monotonous.

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            • #66
              Re: Picking Right Idea

              I agree with a lot of that -- but this thread is going with the giving the writer is a great writer and will put in the time -- I'm saying if you spend 8 months or 8 minutes on a bad idea, the results will be the same.

              But to back up your point, I've been working on same spec with rep for like 9 months now and it gets better every time -- and it's painful and I probably would have stopped 3 months ago if left to my own devices.

              However, I've got repped off other specs where I put much less time into -- so number of hours doesn't always translate into results.

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              • #67
                Re: Picking Right Idea

                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                I agree with a lot of that -- but this thread is going with the giving the writer is a great writer and will put in the time -- I'm saying if you spend 8 months or 8 minutes on a bad idea, the results will be the same.

                But to back up your point, I've been working on same spec with rep for like 9 months now and it gets better every time -- and it's painful and I probably would have stopped 3 months ago if left to my own devices.

                However, I've got repped off other specs where I put much less time into -- so number of hours doesn't always translate into results.
                The most recent scriptnotes episode had a note sent in by a writer, describing the summary given by a studio for a potential movie about the card game Uno. It's painful.

                I agree, if you're in control of the idea you're writing, do yourself a favor and choose the best idea.

                The question is what makes a good idea? Is it simply an idea you're passionate about and that you know you'll finish? How much should marketability enter into the calculation?

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                • #68
                  Re: Picking Right Idea

                  Sign me up to write that UNO movie. I'd make it that 4 friends wearing specific colored shirts are playing the game UNO and all get magic powers. And then it's just a crazy comedy and pretty much ignore the game itself. That's my pitch Hollywood!

                  Passion and finishing it are two key factors.

                  Marketbality to me is the number one factor. If you're trying to be a screenwriter in Hollywood -- this is the point of it all, right? If it can't sell -- then why write it if your goal is to do this job. Now, most scripts won't sell, but at least think of it as a sample of what you can do. Now maybe being unqiue and having a voice is a good goal to have and sometimes standing out it key -- but I think those unique people do that w/o even trying. But for most of us -- like me -- we are good writers and have a voice -- but maybe we sound like other writers -- we should always think about selling. And why not do both if you can?

                  Being able to write a logline for the idea that not only lays out what Act 2 engine (plot of movie will be) is key too. If you can't even figure that out, chances are it's a bad idea or not yet fully developed idea.

                  Ask friends -- do you like this idea?

                  After awhile -- if you trust yourself and have had success to back up your belief in yourself -- you often know when you have a winning idea vs an okay idea. But if you haven't had any success yet, please ask others.

                  The truth is sometimes you don't know if it's a good idea until you see the end result. Some things look bad on paper and some things look great and it goes the other way.

                  But if you give me 10 ideas, I think we can pick the best 1-2 out of the bunch. And it's usually pretty easy to pick the bad ones.

                  However, being a writer, means often you're going to write stuff that everyone else told you not to write and sometimes that's the success story. But for 99% of the time -- it's not. It's a bad script.

                  So are you the 1% genuis with luck or are you me who needs to do everything they can to give themselves the best hand at the poker table?

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                  • #69
                    Re: Picking Right Idea

                    Originally posted by Bono View Post
                    Marketbality to me is the number one factor. If you're trying to be a screenwriter in Hollywood -- this is the point of it all, right? If it can't sell -- then why write it if your goal is to do this job. Now, most scripts won't sell, but at least think of it as a sample of what you can do. Now maybe being unqiue and having a voice is a good goal to have and sometimes standing out it key -- but I think those unique people do that w/o even trying. But for most of us -- like me -- we are good writers and have a voice -- but maybe we sound like other writers -- we should always think about selling. And why not do both if you can?
                    This isn't me thinking I'm special, so I hope no one takes this as such, but as a writer with that original, unique voice and has been told as such many times by readers professional and otherwise, it feels like more of a curse than a blessing.

                    What I mean is, when no one else out there is writing with the style you do, none of your ideas feel particularly marketable because there are very few comps of produced stuff out there. Then you end up questioning the commercial viability of every idea and script you have even if other people tell you a particular one is or sounds amazing.

                    That literally happened to me an hour ago. I pitched an idea to an industry friend, and then they started geeking out about how cool and different it sounded, but neither of us could conclude whether it would sell or not because we couldn't think of a single movie that sounded like it.

                    All I'm really saying is that it's easier to guage if you think something you have will sell or not if something similar has sold already. When you're working outside the box, everything feels like a risk.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Picking Right Idea

                      Originally posted by Prezzy View Post
                      This isn't me thinking I'm special, so I hope no one takes this as such, but as a writer with that original, unique voice and has been told as such many times by readers professional and otherwise, it feels like more of a curse than a blessing.

                      What I mean is, when no one else out there is writing with the style you do, none of your ideas feel particularly marketable because there are very few comps of produced stuff out there. Then you end up questioning the commercial viability of every idea and script you have even if other people tell you a particular one is or sounds amazing.

                      That literally happened to me an hour ago. I pitched an idea to an industry friend, and then they started geeking out about how cool and different it sounded, but neither of us could conclude whether it would sell or not because we couldn't think of a single movie that sounded like it.

                      All I'm really saying is that it's easier to guage if you think something you have will sell or not if something similar has sold already. When you're working outside the box, everything feels like a risk.
                      Feel free to tell me the idea in private and I'll tell you how I have same idea in my idea box. I've had a few really cool ones and no matter how unique, if I told 3 people, 1 said they had same idea or at least same world. So not saying you're lying -- I'm just saying -- if you ask more people -- you'll find out you're not alone in this crazy world. Ha.

                      Anyway -- sounds like a good problem to have. You can learn to adapt your voice into being a mainstream person. I think. If you wanted to, that is.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Picking Right Idea

                        Just like Goldman coined the phrase: No one knows anything. They don't know what's gonna be a hit and what's gonna flop.

                        Was Cats a bad idea? Waterworld?

                        Goldman came up with an idea by asking his daughters to each come up with one word for a story title. One daughter said Princess, the other said Bride.

                        A bad idea is one that's not explored to the max. A bad bitch dea is a carbon copy of something that's been done.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Picking Right Idea

                          Yes, Waterworld was a bad idea. Steven Spielberg said so.
                          Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                          "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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                          • #73
                            Re: Picking Right Idea

                            Goldman can take any two words and write a great original script. Again, I'm talking about the rest of us who have to work really hard at this. Not some of the best of all time.

                            But sure, I get it -- you don't agree. I guess it makes sense since you (Cyfress) offer development services, you see a world that you can fix any script and make it better. I disagree.

                            By the way, Goldman also adapted a terrible movie from a Stephen King book and he agreed -- a bad idea in a book was a bad idea for a movie and yada yada... I don't think that could have been saved by any writer. If your plot involves crapping out aliens monsters and you're taking it way too seriously, you're doomed. As a horror comedy maybe.

                            Off topic -- I'm the only one I know that loves Waterworld.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Picking Right Idea

                              Originally posted by Crayon View Post
                              Yes, Waterworld was a bad idea. Steven Spielberg said so.
                              He said it was a bad idea to shoot in a real ocean vs a controlled environment due to his experience on JAWS making that mistake.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Picking Right Idea

                                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                                He said it was a bad idea to shoot in a real ocean vs a controlled environment due to his experience on JAWS making that mistake.
                                Yes, I know. And I assumed that everyone reading this thread knows.
                                Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                                "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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