Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

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  • Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

    Came up with this match up after digging up an old Chris Lockhart post on the million dollar screenplay STAY by David Benioff.

    Which of these two skills do you tend to have more problems with? Is one slightly more important than the other?
    "There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you."
    -Maya Angelou

  • #2
    Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

    Nobody cares about excellent writing.

    I have read one too many poorly written scripts that recieve high praise, and the reason they are praised is for the ideas contained within the script. Remember, the words stay on the page.

    I still advocate high-quality writing and employ it in my own work, but in this business, the idea is king.

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    • #3
      Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

      Screenwriting IS storytelling.



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      • #4
        Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

        Originally posted by WriteByNight View Post
        Came up with this match up after digging up an old Chris Lockhart post on the million dollar screenplay STAY by David Benioff.

        Which of these two skills do you tend to have more problems with? Is one slightly more important than the other?
        Interesting...

        I was just thinking about all this the other day. I was visiting a site of an experienced writer (I don't think he's sold anything but he has a manager) who had samples of his work up for viewing. I was struck by this: His writing was of professional quality, but his story was rather unoriginal & dull.

        I do think there is a difference btwn good "writing" and good "storytelling".

        A good writer (i use the term "wordsmith" a lot) is someone with a keen facility with words. They are clever writers who know how to put words & sentences together. They come up with just the right turn of phrase in order to entertain. You see a lot of popular bloggers ... & sometimes movie reviewers, political commentators, etc ... who fall into the wordsmith category.

        But of all these writers who have entertaining blogs, how many of them can actually write a pro quality script or novel? ... one that gets bought?

        Good storytellers are ones who know how to put a complete story together from beginning to end that holds people's attention. They may not be great writers per se, but they know how to spin a good yarn.

        The highly respected pro screenwriters and novelists are both excellent writers & excellent storytellers.

        I suspect there are plenty of pre-pro screenwriters who are very good writers. I see 'em around the internet. They usually come from some other writing background. But read their stuff. Their scripts are often dull, convoluted, &/or unmarketable. Their writing is good, but their overall storytelling (screenwriting) skills are still lacking.

        Which of these two skills do you tend to have more problems with?

        Hmmm... I certainly don't think i'm a great writer... but I can be a very good writer on a good day. There are definately people out there who can write rings around me.

        Is one slightly more important than the other?

        Since I've heard "good writers are a dime a dozen, HW is filled with good writers". I'd have to say, the ability to tell an original, compelling, entertaining story, from start to finish, is the more important skill.


        "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

        ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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        • #5
          Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

          Originally posted by stvnlra View Post
          The highly respected pro screenwriters and novelists are both excellent writers & excellent storytellers.
          One of the problems many novelists have when they attempt screenwriting is that they're still working within the aesthetic of the long prose form, which demands an original style and writing that to some degree draws attention to itself by its sheer excellence.

          Which is why those of us who work in both forms have to switch gears completely when moving from one discipline to the other.

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          • #6
            Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

            Storytelling is considerably more important, I think. It's the more innate skill of the two. Bad writing can be fixed. Bad storytelling can't. Those people who tell campfire stories late at night probably couldn't write all that well -- and as Biohazard said, no one cared. The tales were still highly entertaining.
            "I ask every producer I meet if they need TV specs they say yeah. They all want a 40 inch display that's 1080p and 120Hz. So, I quit my job at the West Hollywood Best Buy."
            - Screenwriting Friend

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            • #7
              Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

              the idea is the single most important thing - good storytelling will forgive poor writing, but poor writing can never make up for a weak idea.

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              • #8
                Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                I wanted to be a writer because I was always good at writing; I'm good at getting ideas across, I have a way with words, etc. But I wasn't a good storyteller. But it is something you can learn, because I know I've gotten sooooo much better.

                I still think good writing is important. Not as important as having a good story, but good writing lets you tell that story more effectively.
                "Witticism"
                -Some Guy

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                • #9
                  Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                  Good writing is good storytelling, The two are indivisible.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                    It sounds like a few posters are equating a good IDEA (or ideaS) with good storytelling. I don't think the two are the same thing.

                    Anybody can come up with a half-decent story idea but not do anything with it, or mangle it in the writing (storytelling) process.

                    Producers come up with IDEAS all the time. That doesn't make them writers. If they were writers, they'd go ahead & write the script.

                    And somebody (studio exec, girlfriend, roommate, mom, etc) that gives you notes (ideas) during the writing process isn't a writer either.

                    Now, if you're saying, coming up with a bunch of quality ideas and then stringing them together to form an interesting narrative is storytelling, then yes, i agree with that.
                    Last edited by Laura Reyna; 07-02-2007, 12:43 PM. Reason: Typos!

                    "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                    ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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                    • #11
                      Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                      Originally posted by deadeye View Post
                      Good writing is good storytelling, The two are indivisible.
                      It certainly seems that way on the surface, but I pose the arguement because I've read a few scripts that were well written, but the story itself just didn't work. In other words, the visuals, the descriptions, the dialogue were top notch, but the plotting was subpar.
                      "There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you."
                      -Maya Angelou

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                      • #12
                        Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                        I think many of these threads go 'round and 'round due to differing interpretations of certain words. So, I can see Deadeye's point, but I'm more in WBN's camp. What if we gave more specific definitions of the terms, and then debated based on those definitions rather than different definitions?

                        Off the top of my head:

                        Storytelling: An ordering of events designed to stimulate an audience (listener, viewer, reader)

                        Wordsmithing: The execution of words and sentences, either in prose or screen description, used to relay a story on a page.

                        Writing: Storytelling + Wordsmithing


                        Ammendments and alterations welcomed.

                        Cutt-
                        "I've got vision up the butt, so just go with it!" - Dewey Finn, School of Rock

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                        • #13
                          Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                          This is like trying to compare a set of tools to the bird house you make with them.

                          Words are the tools through which you tell a STORY.

                          The finished product is a STORY.

                          I don't see how you can possible compare the 2.
                          Last edited by prescribe22; 07-02-2007, 01:33 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                            Originally posted by prescribe22 View Post
                            This is like trying to compare a set of tools to the bird house you make with them.
                            Exactly.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Excellent Writing vs. Excellent Storytelling

                              Originally posted by prescribe22 View Post
                              I don't see how you can possible compare the 2.
                              Well, first of all, since we're all in such a semantic mood, it's "possibly compare the two".

                              Secondly, I think it's a bit more complex than tools and end-product. To continue using the metaphor of the birdhouse. . . There are quite a few variables. Here's my take on Birdhouse vs. Story.

                              First there's the idea:
                              • Birdhouse: "Hey, what about a three story birdhouse? My birds would love that!"
                              • Movie: "Hey, what if giant robots who could change into planes, trains, and automobiles fought a war on our planet? Everyone would love that!"


                              I think most people would argue that the idea is the easy part.

                              Then there's turning the idea into a plan:
                              • Birdhouse: It could be anywhere from a sketch on a cocktail napkin to a professionally-executed architectural blueprint.
                              • Movie: It could be anwhere from an outline on a cocktail napkin to a professionally-executed screenplay.


                              The tools used to create the plan are similar for Birdhouse or Movie. Pen, paper, computer, etc.

                              The materials used to create the plan are similar in some ways, different in others.
                              • Birdhouse: Lines and numbers and words for the Birdhouse plan.
                              • Movie: Words and sentences and events for the Movie plan.


                              Once the plan is created, it needs to be executed. (Slightly outside of the scope of the previous debate, but hey - we're almost all writing for movies, right?)

                              The execution of the plan also has tools and materials.

                              Birdhouse -
                              • Tools: Hammers, saws, sandpaper, etc.
                              • Materials: Lumber, nails, paint, etc.


                              Movie -
                              • Tools: Camera, Microphones, Lights, Actors, etc.
                              • Materials: Film, tape, etc.


                              So, that's a lot of variables.

                              Can anyone tell I'm avoiding work?
                              "I've got vision up the butt, so just go with it!" - Dewey Finn, School of Rock

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