ScriptShadow

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  • #91
    Re: ScriptShadow

    I was pretty sure that The Disciple Program was an Amateur Friday script, not a pay-for-notes one. I can see I was wrong.

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    • #92
      Re: ScriptShadow

      Has anybody read his review of The Master? Starting his producing career well by absolutely trashing PTA.

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      • #93
        Re: ScriptShadow

        Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
        Has anybody read his review of The Master? Starting his producing career well by absolutely trashing PTA.
        I'm seeing it tonight, so I don't want to read it, but from a certain perspective I can see how someone wouldn't be into it, especially if it's the companion piece to THERE WILL BE BLOOD that people say it is.

        However, if he's venturing into "PTA clearly doesn't know what he's doing..." territory, then yeah - that's dumb.

        Personally, I thought THERE WILL BE BLOOD was one of the best American movies of the last 25 years. Maybe THE best. However, it isn't exactly an easy sit if you're not into it.

        I was really surprised to see that THE MASTER is less than 3 hours

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        • #94
          Re: ScriptShadow

          No he seems to like PTA so it's just this film he doesn't like. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But there was something he said that really ticked me off.

          "Paul Thomas Anderson is one of the few truly original voices out there that Hollywood allows to make movies. He owes it to himself and to us to give everything he can on the script, and not just one-draft it ala prequel George Lucas. The abysmallness of this script is right up there with Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull. Just embarrassingly awful. So upset by this script and film."

          Say what you want but in what world does PTA owe him or any other audience member a single damn thing? Jesus I cannot get over how obnoxious this is. No failed writer sould be able to tell an Oscar nominated Writer/Director that he let himself down.

          He's assuming that the script was an act of laziness which just p****s me off. Every finished script is an effort no matter what.

          I feel bad about ragging on the guy but he brings it on himself.

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          • #95
            Re: ScriptShadow

            Oh, yeah, then that's dumb. If the movie's bad, that's not the reason.

            To think that Paul Thomas Anderson is capable of restraining himself enough to stop at a first draft of anything is absolutely insane Has he ever read a PTA script? They're like John Doe's notebooks from SEVEN.
            Last edited by SteveLilley; 09-21-2012, 07:46 AM.

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            • #96
              Re: ScriptShadow

              I can never understand what makes people like 'There Will be Blood' but to compare with the most recent Indiana Jones movie? Even that is below the belt!
              www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

              http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
              http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

              Twitter: @JustinMSloan

              Want a free book?

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              • #97
                Re: ScriptShadow

                I don't know if it has something to do with all the flack he's been taking, but his last few reviews of Psycho Killer, Hyde and The Master have been terrible and more than a little arrogant. If you're sending someone $600/1000 to read your script you don't want to read this: Honestly, the only reason I didn't rate this higher was because it's not my thing.

                And the whole point to getting access to his roladex of connections is to get a certain rating? Red flag. Andrew is open about not liking torture porn but gives everything a fair shot.

                I did like his little foot note to The Master:

                What I learned: Laziness in scriptwriting ALWAYS COMES BACK TO BITE YOU. You can't hide it. Readers aren't stupid. They will always spot it. They will always call you out. And we all know when we're doing it. We all know when we're being lazy. We all try to talk ourselves into why it's okay for that specific scene or moment. DON'T FALL INTO THAT TRAP. Don't let a single piece of your script be lazy. It will come back to bite you, I promise.

                And he didn't even read the script?
                *puke*

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                • #98
                  Re: ScriptShadow

                  You cannot charge money for a read and call yourself a producer. It's just wrong and people really need to wise up about paying that kind of money for help on a script.

                  I like the site and he's a nice guy, but you can't defend what he's doing. If he's not going to respond to the criticism, it'd at least be nice if he stopped charging for notes or gave up this production venture.

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                  • #99
                    Re: ScriptShadow

                    Can't you basically get exactly what he's offering for like $100 by entering something like PAGE and paying extra for notes?

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                    • Re: ScriptShadow

                      Comment from the blog:

                      Hate to high-jack this thread and steal any light away from today's writer but I had this on the brain and couldn't wait 'till Monday.
                      Again, apologies to today's writer!


                      Dear friends: my thoughts on the recent drama between this site and others.



                      It's my hope that I approach this subject matter objectively, since that is the bane of my professional existence. And so, I'll state upfront: I have a vested interest in ScriptShadow (SS) as I am supporter of this site and (most of) its mission. In my field, we call that declaring our conflicts of interest. See, I'm being objective already! So let's get to it!


                      I'll start each section with a title describing the criticism then add a Hardy Boys subtitle for flair.


                      ScriptShadow is Harmful to Screenwriters (or The Curse of the One Percent)

                      A recent phenomenon swept through American politics known as the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement. While the movement lacked a coherent
                      message, its slogan spread like wildfire: "We are the 99%!- To the movement,
                      the 1% were the haves: the banks, mortgage industry, insurance industry, extremely wealthy and so on; whereas the 99% were the have-nots: everyone else.
                      How is this relevant ? Well, I can only imagine that when Mr. August complains of being inconvenienced by an SS review, 99% of his listening audience (figuratively speaking) replies with a categorical, "so what?- - because in this scenario, John and company are the 1%. The 99% might agree on some moral level, but it's unlikely that they share in John's angst because they aren't directly affected.
                      Now please don't misconstrue this as me condoning this line of thinking. I'm merely pointing out that most of the online screenwriting fellowship are unaffected professionally by SS and frankly don't care. We're here to learn how to write. And if that means reading an early draft of a screenplay to see how it was later changed in subsequent drafts, so be it. There is no better education. That might be myopic and self-centered, but so is Twitter.



                      Beyond that, unless the industry as a whole is dramatically affected, what John experienced is an isolated, painful inconvenience, but to state that it is harmful to all screenwriters or will somehow harm the industry as a whole is a bold statement that needs solid supporting evidence before it can be accepted as fact.



                      ScriptShadow is Unethical (or The Case of the Appeal to Tradition)
                      There was an excellent episode of South Park back in season 6 entitled Red Hot Catholic Love. In this episode, Father Maxi (a priest) gathers a group of fellow Catholic priests to discuss the issue of child molestation but is horrified to learn that his peers find no issue with the act
                      of molestation itself but instead take issue with the fact that it's now being exposed to the public. I can't think of a better metaphor to describe the whole situation around SS sharing scripts/reviewing unfinished scripts.
                      Forgetting for a moment that SS has largely transitioned to reviewing unproduced specs or final drafts of produced features, can we for a moment consider just how hypocritical people in this industry are?
                      Putting the legality of the practice aside, there are literally dozens of online sites where this same practice is not only encouraged but where subscribers even pay a joiner's fee to obtain access to these same scripts. And unless you've never, not once, emailed a friend a script or requested a script in return, you're arguing from a position of fallibility. And of course, these same practices have been occurring offline for decades.
                      -But there's an unspoken rule to not share!- I'm sorry, but there is a reason that we as a society decided to codify our laws into written text, and that's because unspoken rules are unenforceable, often sidestepped when morally convenient, or easily misinterpreted. So unless SS' critics continue their high-horsed crusade against all similar outlets, to pick on SS is being oddly specific and hypocritical. After all, we're in the age of Wikileaks and digital information. It's bound to happen one way or another.


                      But isn't it unethical to review unfinished scripts? Again, morality is relative so it depends on which side of the spectrum you stand. Beyond that, however, a) it's difficult to know what is or isn't a fully developed script and b) once scripts reach later stages of development, they're often inaccessible. And so it follows that the majority of scripts reviewed on SS are those that are easily available to anyone with an internet connection and half a wit to find them. And there is always an understanding that what is being reviewed relates to that specific draft, which is subject to change. Could a lot of controversy be settled by reviewing scripts post-production? Yes. But do I care? Honestly, no. And I don't say that selfishly. I haven't seen the evidence that this practice is doing significant damage to the industry so until I do, I'll continue to value the education I receive above the inconvenience of a few professionals. It's a cynical point of view and one that I'm open to changing but that's my position for now. And keep in mind that Carson will always remove a review on request.



                      He Charges What!? (or Misunderstanding Capitalism)

                      A few quick notes. Yes, as Carson's popularity boomed, he made a few poor choices, including charging an exorbitant amount for his script notes. But I constantly read criticisms that try to paint the man as some kind of sinister predator luring naïve and unsuspecting victims into the unmarked van that is his notes service to rape them of their well-earned money. Seriously? Where are these poor, innocent victims being preyed upon by this menace? The guy became popular and tried to capitalize on it. Did he go a bit too far? Sure. And the market will adjust. That aside, open your eyes: there are literally hundreds of gurus all charging an arm and leg for their course, class, ebook, newsletter, or what have you, and most of these paid products provide far less value than Carson's free website. Now that this silliness has exploded onto the web, can we let the man step back and re-evaluate his position before we break out the pitchforks?
                      Give the Guy Some Credit (or The Plea to Leave Britney Alone)
                      SS is by far the most educational site on screenwriting. I say this crediting Carson in large part, who puts an insane amount of time and effort into what he does, but also the community, which is the strongest on the interwebs.



                      It's easy to label the guy as being nothing more than a reader, but he's a reader who puts his reviews, opinions, criticisms and suggestions onto the web for all to see. That's what separates him from you. You want to do the same? Go ahead. No? Don't have the time? That's what I thought.
                      There is a reason that few sites like SS exist. And that's because it requires a ton of work for no direct pay. In fact, it's ludicrous to not expect Carson to find some way to pay the bills through his site. Enough of his readers value his product to give him that much. And this idea of that his word is gospel and that his devotees will blindly follow him wherever he may go is absurd. Spend a few days in the comments. It's a diverse community like any other. We disagree with him frequently. That's the nature of this art form.



                      So, despite a market flooded with screenwriting guides and how-to's, there exist very few outlets that teach the heart of screenwriting. Sure, books filled with single-sentence tips for hacks provide great insight but that's superficial knowledge that doesn't help much when it comes time to putting words on the page. John and Craig's podcast similarly provides invaluable knowledge, but it comes piecemeal and doesn't let us taste the entire dish of tackling a full script.



                      The best way to learn the craft is, and always will be, a) to write, and b) to read and analyze actual screenplays. Thus, any outlet that provides that experience will always be valued above others.



                      Finally, if Carson wants to enter producing, more power to him, but he'll have to learn it like everyone else: by actually producing something.


                      So with all that said, my final words are for Carson:



                      Dude, step away from Twitter. You've received a ton of valuable insight and criticism. Take some time to ponder what you've learned and consider your next steps.
                      And now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to blare angry music with the windows down as I traverse the hell that is LA traffic...
                      Finally, congratulations to today's writer (apologies again).

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                      • Re: ScriptShadow

                        So if Scriptshadow and Done Deal meet at Pops tonight, there can be a war council unless Krupke shows up.

                        Guns, knives, Final Draft or Movie Magic...

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpaS2...=results_video

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                        • Re: ScriptShadow

                          Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
                          Has anybody read his review of The Master? Starting his producing career well by absolutely trashing PTA.
                          He's entitled to his own opinion, but he trashed Andrew Kevin Walker the other week. A writer who works on numerous occasions with Scott Rudin.
                          @TerranceMulloy

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                          • Re: ScriptShadow

                            Originally posted by Terrance Mulloy View Post
                            He's entitled to his own opinion, but he trashed Andrew Kevin Walker the other week. A writer who works on numerous occasions with Scott Rudin.


                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkdP02HKQGc

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                            • Re: ScriptShadow

                              Aspiring to be a producer while also running a site that criticizes other filmmakers' projects is Carson's biggest problem. You can't disparage works in progress & expect others to be OK with that.

                              He'll probably stop reviewing pro scripts & stick with the amateurs. That's the direction this seems to be going.

                              "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                              ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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                              • Re: ScriptShadow

                                Originally posted by ATB View Post
                                Have to chime in on this...

                                If that's what you think August and Mazin were saying, then that entire podcast went way over your head.

                                Now back to writing...
                                OT a bit -- finally went to listen to the new August/Mazin podcast and they have a whole new look for the website. Which is fine, but now there's no allowance for comments, by anyone, to be made. I'll miss the comments -- and at the same time wonder if it will actually drive more people to a site like Scriptshadow because they can comment there?

                                comments = a sense of community, give and take. Without them, it seems sterile.

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