Opinions on "A beat"

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  • #31
    Re: Opinions on "A beat"

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    -- I always knew there was something wrong with you. A beat. Just kidding.
    The word "Beat" alone, maybe, but "A beat?"

    Outrageous.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Opinions on "A beat"

      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
      NOBODY CARES if you use a well-placed (beat) or (off her look) or stick it into action. Actors won't feel like it's stepping on their lines because well-placed beats add information.
      -- Nobody cares? You've even used a strong emphasis to get that point across.

      As for selling, nobody cares as long as the goods/story is there, but as for being completely fine with it, it’s not the case. Some people care.

      Richard Attenborough, actor, director, producer, mentioned in an interview that he hates (beat). He feels it’s an intrusion on the director and actor.

      John August, who uses “beat,” readily admits that there are people who care:

      “Some screenwriters and some readers really despise the term “beat.” … It’s not hard to avoid using it. Scripting an action is handy, but almost anything in a parenthetical would do the trick.”

      -- My only deviation from this advice would be at first not to use just anything, but strive to use something that’ll enhance the read/story as I mentioned in my other posts.

      For those whose personal preference is to use “beat” John August’s advice:

      “It’s very easy to over use them. Most times, dialogue reads fine without any special indicators, so save them for when they’re truly needed.”

      From my understanding, a good actor who has done research on their character -- and knows that character well -- knows best when to pause for pacing, rhythm, emotion, or whatever.

      An actor is the one who brings your character to life. He is the flesh and bones of the character. Trust him. Don’t overuse “beat.” Otherwise, it’ll look like you don’t trust the director or actor to “get it” without the help of a road sign like “beat.”

      My intent was to show there was an alternative -- and in my opinion -- an alternative that’s more subtle and effective.

      Whichever style one chooses to use, just remember, in the end it’s the story that truly matters.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Opinions on "A beat"

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        -- My only deviation from this advice would be at first not to use just anything, but strive to use something that’ll enhance the read/story as I mentioned in my other posts.

        ***

        From my understanding, a good actor who has done research on their character -- and knows that character well -- knows best when to pause for pacing, rhythm, emotion, or whatever.
        In one of my earlier posts, I included an actual example from "The Town" - a script whose writers included an actor, Ben Affleck.

        Plus, Affleck was the director. Plus, that "(beat)" appears in dialogue for the character he was playing.

        So when an actor/director/co-writer thinks "(beat)" is helpful in his own dialogue on the page, that informs my writing.

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        An actor is the one who brings your character to life. He is the flesh and bones of the character. Trust him. Don’t overuse “beat.” Otherwise, it’ll look like you don’t trust the director or actor to “get it” without the help of a road sign like “beat.”
        In one of my earlier posts, I put up actual script stats, including the stat for "Argo", where "a beat" was used 22 times - a script that did OK, and was written for an actor/director, Ben Affleck.

        And just for one other example, effin' F. Scott Frazier used "beat" 10 times in "Line of Sight".

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        Here’s an example of what I’m talking about from one of my scripts:

        WITH BEAT

        EXT. ELEMENTARY SCHOOLYARD - DAY

        Recess. Gazillion kids, run, play and hang out.

        17-YEAR-OLD GIRL’S VOICE
        It’s funny how looks have a strange
        affect on people. I first noticed
        this when I was ten. And just my
        luck, I happened to have a look
        that draws people close around me.
        (beat)
        So close, it’s hard to breathe.

        -- “Beat” does the job, or as you would say “fit’s the bill,” but with a little more work could I create something better that’ll evoke more emotion, help reveal character and plot.

        WITHOUT BEAT

        17-YEAR-OLD GIRL’S VOICE
        It’s funny how looks have a strange
        affect on people. I first noticed
        this when I was ten. And just my
        luck, I happened to have a look
        that draws people close around me.
        (takes a breath)
        So close, it’s hard to breathe.

        -- By choosing something specific like “breath” instead of the generic “beat” I believe it’s better. Being something of substance, it’ll evoke more emotion from the reader. Reveal character to the reader and a hint of the plot and the affect it’ll have on the character.
        There, you're trying to have this argument both ways. Yes, "(takes a breath)" evokes an emotion for a reader, but what of the actor?

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        An actor is the one who brings your character to life. He is the flesh and bones of the character. Trust him.
        So in your script, you didn't trust the actress to know when to breath?

        (IOW, perhaps that didn't need any parenthetical at all.)

        Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
        This is one of those things where an over-draconian instruction ("Don't use beat!") has somehow become the standard advice, not because of how pros do it, but rather because of how newbies do.

        One of the things that is typical for a newbie script is to overdirect every single line of dialog.

        ***

        So it's a heck of a lot easier to just say, "Just don't use 'em." Because that's advice they'll actually understand.

        And somehow this has become the "rule."

        NOBODY CARES if you use a well-placed (beat) or (off her look) or stick it into action. Actors won't feel like it's stepping on their lines because well-placed beats add information.
        I go with that. ^^

        Again, as you wrote -
        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        From my understanding, a good actor who has done research on their character -- and knows that character well -- knows best when to pause for pacing, rhythm, emotion, or whatever.
        I would not be at all surprised if an actor ignored my "beats", commas, periods, and all sorts of other things I've put on the page, but first those things have to make sense on the page. Sometimes, "a beat" helps my words make sense on the page.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Opinions on "A beat"

          Originally posted by Manchester View Post
          Here is an excerpt from one of my favorite scenes in "The Town". Ben Affleck and Rebecca Hall.

          That one big block of Doug's dialogue, about 3/4 page, takes over 90 seconds of screen time IIRC. IOW, there are lots of "a beat" (i.e., pauses); they just aren't written.

          But then there is one explicit "(beat)", and IMO it's there to say there's a change in direction. It's there to say: Doug takes a moment, realizes he's kind of wandered off topic, refocuses, resumes telling his story. Or maybe it's there to say: Doug pauses, does something that indicates he's about to digress for a moment, to relate another sad story.

          Either way, instead of writing all that, the writer just wrote "(beat)".

          Code:
                                          CLAIRE
                           Doug, I just want to know about
                           something that tells me who you
                           are. If I can't know that I don't
                           know what I'm doing here.
           
            Doug just looks at her. Then he starts talking.
           
                                          DOUG
                           I just turned six. This noise woke
                           me up in the morning. I thought it
                           was an animal maybe. I'd never
                           heard what a man sounded like
                           just, you know, crying.. When I
                           saw my father in the kitchen all I
                           remember is the ashtray. Looked
                           like he'd been through a hundred
                           cigarettes. Ash like a little
                           mountain. He had stopped crying
                           and he was sitting there watching
                           TV on our little black and white
                           with no sound. I think he just
                           didn't know what else to do. He
                           saw me standing in the doorway and
                           he just goes, "your mother left.
                           She's not comin' back.- Just like
                           that. Smokin' cigarettes and eatin
                           a tv dinner at six in the mornin'.
                                          (beat)
                           We lost our dog the year before. I
                           thought "lost- was a place people
                           went. I wanted to make these
                           posters so if she was lost she
                           could call us like they did when
                           someone found our dog. To this day
                           my father will tell you he helped
                           me make those posters. But he
                           didn't. He sat there and drank a
                           case of beer and I went around by
                           myself on school street asking
                           people if they seen my mother. I
                           always assumed she went off and
                           started another family somewhere
                           and knowing my father-- I don't
                           blame her.
           
            Claire doesn't know what to say. We see she is extremely
            moved.
           
                                          DOUG (CONT'D)
                           Glad I told that story... Now
                           you're never gonna call me.
                                           (realizes)
                           Did I just say, "now you're never
                           gonna call me?- How did I turn
                           into Sex and the City all of a
                           sudden?
           
            She laughs, breaking the tension.
          I wonder if the beat was inserted to break up the page/monologue, Manchester. Looks pretty daunting to me without it...

          Also, i've seen pause used alot in produced scripts, so I use that instead of Beat. Is this problematic? Thanks if anyone has any thought on this.
          " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Opinions on "A beat"

            Originally posted by Manchester View Post
            In one of my earlier posts, I included an actual example from "The Town" - a script whose writers included an actor, Ben Affleck.

            Plus, Affleck was the director. Plus, that "(beat)" appears in dialogue for the character he was playing.

            So when an actor/director/co-writer thinks "(beat)" is helpful in his own dialogue on the page, that informs my writing.

            including the stat for "Argo", where "a beat" was used 22 times - a script that did OK, and was written for an actor/director, Ben Affleck.
            -- Whoa, Manchester, calm down.

            I've stated in my original post that "beat- does the job. If you feel there's no better way to get your intent across to a reader than using "beat,- then go ahead.

            You'll find this style used in pro scripts and not used in pro scripts. You'll find writers, both pro and non-pro, who like to use it in their writing and don't like to use it.

            Save your indignation for someone who would declare a writer an amateur because he uses "beat.-

            The only thing I did was give an opinion.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Opinions on "A beat"

              Given that I was gauche enough to start an anti-"we see" thread my credibility is pretty shot -- but I think "a beat" is sometimes quite useful. It's good shorthand for a mood shift/penny drop/emotional Mexican standoff.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Opinions on "A beat"

                A script isn't written for an actor, its written for a director/producer so they can envision your vision, and then if they like it envision their own vision and then go from there. Unless you're a big star you're not going to be the decision maker on if a script gets made or not.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Opinions on "A beat"

                  I think I need to point out that, yes, we should not cower away from beat as many of us do; yet we also shouldn't be afraid of staying away from it. Our goal is always using less words for a more effective read.

                  If you have the mindset of using "beat" as little as possible, most writers will find they have no need for it at all, or their action descriptions are all the more powerful, or terse without them. Then it becomes a hell of a lot easier to find the really touch lines of dialogue that need it, that couldn't do without it.
                  "...it is the thousandth forgetting of a dream dreamt a thousand times and forgotten a thousand times."
                  --Franz Kafka "Investigations Of A Dog"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Opinions on "A beat"

                    Originally posted by TBEagle View Post
                    A script isn't written for an actor, its written for a director/producer so they can envision your vision, and then if they like it envision their own vision and then go from there. Unless you're a big star you're not going to be the decision maker on if a script gets made or not.
                    Actors and their people get to read scripts, though -- and often their opinion of it/attraction to it is crucial in getting the project further along the development path.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Opinions on "A beat"

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVkaN--0ld0

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Opinions on "A beat"

                        Okay, when people start quoting the quotes of other people, and linking to YouTube with irrelevant messages, it is time to close out a thread. Just natural thread fatigue, I guess.

                        "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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