This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

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  • #31
    Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    One of them is, Pick your POV.
    This applies to noveliisations but we're talking about a script - the entire POV is of the person reading so as long as it's clear and can be 'seen', it's all good.


    But it's bad writing.
    No it's not. But your advice will lead to it.
    M.A.G.A.

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    • #32
      Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
      Oh my lord. There are rules, and then are the fundamentals of writing. One of them is, Pick your POV.
      We're talking about the way action is described. It has nothing to do with POV.

      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
      I'm not saying what the OP wrote isn't clear. Of course it is. It's clear to any moron on the planet. But it's bad writing.
      If the writing is clear, what is the problem? Why do you consider this "bad writing?"
      Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 01-05-2020, 08:32 AM. Reason: Add quote close out code.
      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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      • #33
        Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

        Originally posted by Centos View Post

        if you're really trying to break in you (as you said) compete with those who are actually selling screenplays - not those who are competing against others who aren't selling anything. ... I always figured if I had something worth selling (which I never did) I would try to sell it, and not enter it into a contest
        Easier said than done, Centos.

        Try selling "Finding Forester" without the heat of a Nicholl contest win.

        Done Deal member Wenonah Wilms just scored representation from UTA because of her Nicholl Fellowship contest win with her screenplay titled: "Horsehead Girls."

        You talk about non-pro writers who participate in screenwriting forums' world as moving only "horizontally" and not "vertically," but there is a list of Done Deal members who went on to become professional writers.

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        • #34
          Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

          Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
          You talk about non-pro writers who participate in screenwriting forums' world as moving only "horizontally" and not "vertically," but there is a list of Done Deal members who went on to become professional writers.
          I agree with this. I had two scripts on The Black List a couple years ago, both were offered option agreements with reputable people/companies in the industry. That was not horizontal. It was vertical.

          It also landed my first manager who is now solely producing and is currently working with me on my rom-com to get it out to studios/prodcos early this year. I am currently not repped and holding off on sending out my high concept rom-com until I finish this new draft. Unfortunately, the producer has had an emergency surgery, so we're waiting until he recovers.

          And though I've yet to sell a spec, it could be close. Who knows. Another script is in the hands of a new producer who is trying to obtain attachments and secure financing. It's tough because it's a genre piece that hits about the $40-50 mill mark. It is not a "speedy" process. Haha.

          Contests can break in a writer. But you have to have the right spec for the right contest. You have to know your lane. All you need is one industry professional to love your spec and get behind it. And when nothing happens, then all you need is the NEXT one, who loves your spec and wants to get behind it.

          More than anything. Keep writing.
          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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          • #35
            Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

            Congrats to Wenonah. She is an exceptional talent and kudos to her for sticking with it for a couple decades despite the disappointments.

            In addition to possessing the talent and skills, tenacity is another must-have trait.
            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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            • #36
              Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

              Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
              Easier said than done, Centos.

              Try selling "Finding Forester" without the heat of a Nicholl contest win.

              Done Deal member Wenonah Wilms just scored representation from UTA because of her Nicholl Fellowship contest win with her screenplay titled: "Horsehead Girls."

              You talk about non-pro writers who participate in screenwriting forums' world as moving only "horizontally" and not "vertically," but there is a list of Done Deal members who went on to become professional writers.
              Yeah, but where these writers the kind who would obsess over Blacklist scores? "I got a 4 and a 7, so now I'm going to try for two more reads to see if I can get average up to a 6.5." Maybe I've been reading Reddit's screenwriting newsgroup too much but I don't see how raising your Blacklist score by 1 point is going to get you anywhere. And it's what $80 or $100 for each one of these "reads?"

              As for "Finding Forester," I've got a feeling that this one would have found a market with or without the Nicholl win. I met a writer in person whom I knew from the old misc.writing.screenplays newsgroup. He who won the Nicholl. His win got him some interest (maybe an agent?), but he never sold the script (I don't think he's sold anything yet, ten or more years later).

              I never heard of "Horsehead Girls" or Wenonah Wilms, but this may have been before my time. (A quick look at IMDB shows that Wenonah Wilms has already had some of her stuff produced, as far back as 2006, so it looks like she's been doing more than just entering contests.)

              But entering contests or placing stuff on Blacklist may help if you're actively trying to sell scripts in other ways. I'm talking about people who's whole life is entering contests, placing stuff on Blacklist and obsessing over the exact page to place the inciting incident or writing clumsily to avoid using "ing" verbs or "passive" voice.
              STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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              • #37
                Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                Contests can break in a writer. But you have to have the right spec for the right contest. You have to know your lane. All you need is one industry professional to love your spec and get behind it. And when nothing happens, then all you need is the NEXT one, who loves your spec and wants to get behind it.
                The thing is, there are other routes (more direct routes) than screenplay contests, where so much is left to chance. Research, direct contact, getting in touch with people who know people, etc. Back in the days when I was writing and posting two or three shorts a week on misc.writing.screenplays I actually got two offers by produced writers to introduce me to their agents. These guys actually thought I could write features, I guess. I never took advantage of this because I never had anything to show. I found out I really couldn't write features.

                But I was wrong about one thing - forums can help you make contacts. Actually, probably wrong about the other routes (to a certain extent). If used properly contests and forums (even Blacklist, I guess) can help but not for those mentioned in the past post who've made a game out of "upping their scores" or nitpicking over "passive" voice, etc.
                STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                • #38
                  Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

                  Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                  Congrats to Wenonah. She is an exceptional talent and kudos to her for sticking with it for a couple decades despite the disappointments.

                  In addition to possessing the talent and skills, tenacity is another must-have trait.
                  I would like to say congratulations also. I don't think I've read any of her posts but I only participate in a few forums here. (And, it just occurred to me, she may have a different user name.)
                  STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

                    Beware of the masses screaming about the Rules, and beware even more of the ones screaming hysterically that THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!

                    The minute you decide that the story you want to tell is going to be in the form of a screenplay, as opposed to a novel or a play or a poem... you are already subscribing to a certain set of rules.

                    Beyond that, there are guidelines.
                    And for some people, certain fundamentals of storytelling.

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                    • #40
                      Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

                      The difference here is to keep the filmplay or teleplay mechanical, where as you are required to show in a book such as a novel.

                      Media plays are really an instruction set for both Actors and to a lesser extent production but always being mindful to limit it and KIS Keep it simple. A first filmplay should float with instruction such as dialog and should be crisp and relatively short too. With production it is the day or night (time) and the dialogue with a very brief on what is happening, and location, that's basically it.

                      In authoring novels, a very different situation arises. The only time the original script really gets more descriptive is when it transforms towards a shooting script, otherwise best advice KIS and remember you are writing instructions.

                      As for the book such as a novel, feel free to expand, there is where a detail of everything is required to show the reader what is, versus the instructions of a film or teleplay and stagecraft too for that matter.

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                      • #41
                        Re: This Violates Screenplay Format -- SHOWING

                        Originally posted by Unfinishe View Post
                        I had two readers who recently criticized me for lines that have otherwise flown under the radar.
                        The thing that strikes me is that you had TWO readers point it out. Were they working as a team, or did two different readers giving two different reads come to similar conclusions about the writing? To me, that would be a red flag.

                        It's hard to tell without reading the script and having full context.

                        They may be reacting to some BS "rule" they learned at one point about "unfilmables". In which case, you can disregard.

                        But they may also find your writing stiff and alienating and are trying to provide specific examples to help you improve. In which case, I wouldn't fuss so much about the sentences they pinpointed, but look at your writing overall and ask yourself if you truly are writing this "like a movie." Again, I can't judge from the tiny context you provided, but if I read an entire script where the actions were all "so-and-so's stomach flipped" I might give that writer the note that they can be better. They can be more visual. They can pull us in more.

                        Those are my thoughts.

                        And then, with regards to the conversation about whether or not screenwriting has rules or no rules, I always hearken back to Flannery O'Connor's quote.

                        Paraphrased: "There are no 'rules' in fiction. You can do whatever you can get away with. But nobody has ever gotten away with much."

                        There is no rule about unfilmables, flashbacks, VO, "we see", naming soundtrack songs, page length etc. Hell, I once read a script written in first person. Cormac McCarthy doesn't use quotation marks. Writers can do whatever they can get away with.

                        But you must do it well.

                        Or else you're not going to get away with it.

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