Plough through or correct as you go?

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  • #46
    Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

    Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
    My outlines could be almost as long as the script if I chose to make them so (they aren't, though). The outline process is productive for me because it's unrestrictive; I can elaborate on the action, feeling, or emotion I want from each beat or scene. These I have to pare down later on because there's no way when writing the script I could recall all the subtle details that strike me as I hammer out an outline. The outline is a great reference if only for that reason.

    In the outline, some beats or scene descriptions speak volumes with few words, while others need more description to help me later. In that way, the outline is less than a script, but still its equal, although not necessarily in page count.
    I hear ya. I think it's the knowing that I've figured the story out enough to start as opposed to getting it all detailed. the major plot points are always there, but by the time I get to the end it's ALWAYS different because something exciting emerges from the actual process of writing the script. I'll fill in the, "you should feel this way" from the scene.

    figment:
    Interesting how other peoples' brains work.

    I write scenes by hand until I've written about 50 percent of the script, before I start typing anything. I always write out of sequence. I use the most basic of outlines.

    I start hearing the dialogue before anything else, before I have an actual plot, even. The relationships, what they sound like, what their attitude is towards their wife/husband/kids/boss -- I have that before a plot. I often have to force myself to keep the dialogue at bay until I can discover concretely what sort of script I'm writing. On the other hand, if I can't hear the character talking, I know I'll never finish the script.

    I do 3-4 drafts before I can tell if it's actually something. Sometimes I write 80 pages and realize there isn't enough "there" there, so I stop and try to write something else.

    I've tried to plot extensively before. It simply does not work for me. I'm amazed at the people in this thread that start at page one and write in sequential order, through to the end. There is no way I could ever do that.
    figment, I envy you. I wish I could write out of order. I have started using place holders sometimes.

    I don't hear dialogue ahead of time, that I know of, but it always spills out when I write the scene, so I guess somewhere inside it's already in me, I am just not consciously aware. I never really get stuck that way. I wish I could write out of sequence.

    I do have a really strange process, where the main character's names are so important that I literally cannot start writing until I know their names. I have to feel it. Names have meaning and there's always symbolism for me in them.

    I also print a hardcopy of my script and make revision notes by hand and use colorful post-it flags-- one color for a specific subplot, another for a character's dialogue that I want to focus on.

    Writers, we are a crazy bunch.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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    • #47
      Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

      Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post

      Can you provide more detail?
      I'll write an entire minor character's arc -- 3 or 5 or 7 scenes entirely before I've written Act One. Or I'll write a couple scenes from Act One then skip to Act Three and write a sequence that I know will go there. I'll write the midpoint then go back to the inciting incident.

      Dialogue comes easily sometimes, so if I know two characters are going to have a big fight, I'll write that scene -- because it's already in my head, going around and around -- before I've ever written a scene that actually introduces the characters themselves. That type of stuff. Because I'm writing by hand, it's easy to do, and then I'll put the scenes in order later on, when I start typing.


      Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

      I do have a really strange process, where the main character's names are so important that I literally cannot start writing until I know their names.
      Names are a bitch. I keep labeling everyone X and Y and eventually have to force myself just sit down and figure them out.

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      • #48
        Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

        Originally posted by figment View Post
        I'll write an entire minor character's arc -- 3 or 5 or 7 scenes entirely before I've written Act One. Or I'll write a couple scenes from Act One then skip to Act Three and write a sequence that I know will go there. I'll write the midpoint then go back to the inciting incident.
        Thanks. I do some of this, most notably the character arcs.


        Names are a bitch.
        I must admit, I don't focus on this. I cringe when I see contrived names - y'know, the ex-Black Ops hero is the tough-sounding Mason Decker whilst his nerdy sidekick is the uncool-sounding Walter Binkins when their parents had no idea how they'd turn out. This is why Martin Brody, Larry Vaughn and Matt Hooper ring true for me - normal names with no foreshadowing or stylism. Giving names that describe a character's traits is a pet hate of mine. I just choose names I don't mind typing a hundred times and which don't clash with other characters.
        Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 06-14-2020, 06:17 AM.
        M.A.G.A.

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        • #49
          Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

          Just like a lawyer in a huge complicated case a writer has a discovery process. I've heard people say that they can complete discovery using the outline method. Outline can mean traditional outline or some kind of free flowing narrative where you tell the story to yourself for the first time - I tend to go this way in my prewriting. I don't outline in the traditional sense with the I, II, III, and the A, B,C. I've never finished the discovery process in the outlining phase I've always stumbled situations, characters, or plot twists during the writing.

          Script pages peel away once you get chomping. I mean if someone was willing to pay you 100k and said you'd have to have the script by 5pm tomorrow you'd be able to turn in something. You can write 120 script pages in 24 hours. I mean I'm sure we all have done 20 - 30 in a day over a few hours when it was pouring out.

          The end of the day if you are ploughing through or rewriting as you go during discovery the important thing is to put quality time into the script. That's what will show. Not distracted time, or uninspired time where you quit in 30 minutes cause you just don't feel like it today. Put that quality time in day after day after day and in a few months you will have something that will show for it.

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          • #50
            Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

            Originally posted by figment View Post
            Names are a bitch. I keep labeling everyone X and Y and eventually have to force myself just sit down and figure them out.
            That's fun, glad I'm not the only one. I don't use x or y though, I'll use something descriptive like AngryScientist, SmugGeneral, Soldier, LoveInterest, Hero etc.

            The names materialize later on.

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            • #51
              Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

              What’s in a (character) name? Unless a name for a character comes to me effortlessly or creatively, often I’ll resort to Google Translate, use a word that describes the character’s main trait(s), and find a foreign language translation of the word I can use for a first or (usually) last name. In one script of mine, a soldier has a last name that means “warrior.”

              Like the script, though, I’m willing to make changes. I’m not married to a name and have changed them before the polish draft stage. In that case, it’s usually a matter of how easy it is to read aloud as opposed merely to read.
              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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              • #52
                Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                Originally posted by Anagram View Post
                That's fun, glad I'm not the only one. I don't use x or y though, I'll use something descriptive like AngryScientist, SmugGeneral, Soldier, LoveInterest, Hero etc.

                The names materialize later on.

                I need a title I love. And names big deal to me too. i have to sometimes change them as a I write as I'm like DOUG would say that but not a JOHN. And of course if it's someone I know well I can't use the name anymore.



                But the hot high school girl would be TIFFANY not ALICE.
                A dumb hot jock guy would be DEREK not MAX.


                I'm obsessed about names. I have a lot of name based ideas actually. I think it defines a person for life. Your life is different if your name is MYQ vs MIKE. It just is.



                We should start a name thread and pet peeves. I've started too many already.

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                • #53
                  Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                  Originally posted by Bono View Post
                  I need a title I love. And names big deal to me too. i have to sometimes change them as a I write as I'm like DOUG would say that but not a JOHN. And of course if it's someone I know well I can't use the name anymore.



                  But the hot high school girl would be TIFFANY not ALICE.
                  A dumb hot jock guy would be DEREK not MAX.


                  I'm obsessed about names. I have a lot of name based ideas actually. I think it defines a person for life. Your life is different if your name is MYQ vs MIKE. It just is.



                  We should start a name thread and pet peeves. I've started too many already.
                  I agree and honestly, I'm not sure why I do it this way. It's actually always a hassle going back later and populating them. Something to work on.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                    Originally posted by Anagram View Post
                    That's fun, glad I'm not the only one. I don't use x or y though, I'll use something descriptive like AngryScientist, SmugGeneral, Soldier, LoveInterest, Hero etc.
                    Haha. I used to use "Guy" a lot. Main Guy. Other Guy. Guy's friend. Guy's boss. Guy's girlfriend. It was too many Guys, so I switched to letters.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                      Years ago, I once read an article with an interview of a produced screenwriter of a popular movie at the time. The interviewer asked him his writing ”process.”

                      The gist of his response to that question was that he thought of the script's story in its entirety, start to finish, then sat down to write.

                      This screenwriter said he wrote from page one to wherever he could get by day’s end. The next day, he began from the beginning again and wrote as far as he could get by day’s end. He did this over and over, each time gaining on the story. By the time he reached the script story's ending, he was typing out the screenplay in about two hours’ time, or roughly the length of the film’s viewing time.

                      This screenwriter said that when he wrote this way, his script was a smooth read and polished when he reached ”Fade Out.” He implied that he thought it was the best way for anyone to approach writing a screenplay. He implied that the method took out all the problems as he went along. (this method is also similar to Jeff Lowell’s in his comments on this topic)

                      I'm about to try this method on my next script, although I plan to break it with an outline. Does anyone else see any value in this approach?
                      “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                      • #56
                        Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                        There's definitely merit there. I think it's a race against monotony. An aspiring writer has no guarantees tied to their spec. There's no producer waiting, there's no agent to set up meetings, so if you keep going over the same scenes day after day there's a higher chance of burn out, IMO. From what I understand about the statistics of amateurs writing screenplays is that most do not make it out of draft one. Which I'm sure we all can relate to. How many finished scripts do you have and how many unfinished?

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                        • #57
                          Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                          I do find that I have to start on page 1 thru last page during rewrite process. Jumping around doesn't work then. But that makes more sense to me as i already build the house now I'm moving the furniture around inside.

                          Again I've written "first" drafts that were final drafts.

                          And I'm rewriting my "final draft" for the fifth time.

                          It all depends.

                          Do whatever works.

                          I know at my age -- I can't learn new tricks.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                            Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                            How many finished scripts do you have and how many unfinished?
                            My focus was and still remains on prose, and although I started “studying” the craft of screenwriting ten years ago, I only began screenwriting in earnest last year. It’s more difficult than it appears to be on the surface. I wrote a script in 2009, and it’s a classic first screenplay, so I don’t count it as anything worth mentioning except for finishing it. It has since received a rewrite, though, and transformed dramatically.

                            In the last year or so, I have four completed scripts—two features, one pilot, one short—and have over 35 script premises with loglines hammered out waiting for me to write them—some with outlines, others without them. Only 15 of those (with loglines and outlines) do I keep close at hand as having the most interest for me.

                            Then, too, everyday it seems I luck up on some historical curiosity or other story that makes me want to write a screenplay for it, but it’s either A.) been done already (not anew, though), or B.) it requires the purchase of book rights or life rights, and all my pockets are turned out for other things.

                            My so-called “process” is to work on something each day, whether it’s a short story or the novella or a screenplay. Switching gears mentally has become fun and, hopefully, I’ll become adept at it through practice. I don’t claim to be a great writer, or even talented at the craft, but like the tortoise in Aesop’s fable, I’m keen on plodding through to the end of the race even if it takes a long time.

                            As Jack London reputedly once said, “You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.”
                            Last edited by Clint Hill; 06-16-2020, 01:18 PM.
                            “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                            • #59
                              Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                              I'm glad you answered my question, Tiger but just so you know that question was a general "you" not a specific you.

                              But good for you fo finishing 4 scripts in a year. That's pretty dam good.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                                Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                                I'm glad you answered my question, Tiger, but just so you know that question was a general "you" not a specific you.

                                But good for you for finishing 4 scripts in a year. That's pretty damn good.
                                Oh. A rhetorical question. Must have misread it coming on the heels of my post. Also, thank you, even though I’m a beginner, really. Only two of the scripts are features one with a page count of 109, the other 115; the pilot was only 6o pages, and the short was only 19½ (so, 20) pages, not the AMPAS definition of a short script which is usually a maximum of 35 to 40 pages. At any rate, all are a diversion from other writing.
                                “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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