Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

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  • #16
    Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    No wonder porn movies are so popular.

    But seriously, that's a great insight. Satisfy those three Vs and surely you'll have a hit?
    You forgot the final V - venereal.
    M.A.G.A.

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    • #17
      Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

      Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
      You forgot the final V - venereal.
      'The Final V' - now there's a title to wet the genitals.
      Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
      "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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      • #18
        Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

        Originally posted by KitchonaSteve View Post
        Your use of the word voyeuristic reminds me of Jon Boorstin's excellent book, The Hollywood Eye (sadly out of print). In it Boorstin posits that we watch movies from three different perspectives: the visceral, the vicarious, and the voyeuristic. The voyeuristic is about our desire to see behind the curtain into a world that we find interesting or important. Shakespeare's plays often had nobility at the center of his plays. His audience had a hard time relating to nobility, and many times an even a more difficult time finding them likable, but the nobility had a huge impact on the commoners lives, much like captains of industry and finance have on our lives. So what they do, and why they do it is interesting to us, or at least some of us.


        .
        Agree. I did write a sentence in my OP pointing out Shakespeare's history plays had unlikable protags for that very reason. Then I deleted it.

        And my watching Billions is voyeurism for the same reason: a commoner looking behind the curtain at the billionaire world.
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • #19
          Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

          Stories with bad characters are successful to me, when I relate.

          I find it rather easy to relate to bad characters. I'm not like them, however, there is darkness in myself. And when I see that darkness projected to screen, I relate to an extent.

          There are some characters that are completely unlike myself, yet I still like them. This is more rare. Hannibal Lecter is a good example. But Hannibal is fiercely intelligent, charismatic, and with his own, strict moral code. So he is an admirable person to some extent. On some level I would also like to be that intelligent and charismatic. So I guess even then I relate.

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          • #20
            Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

            Originally posted by KitchonaSteve View Post
            Your use of the word voyeuristic reminds me of Jon Boorstin's excellent book, The Hollywood Eye (sadly out of print).

            .
            https://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Eye...dp/0060391138/

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            • #21
              Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

              Originally posted by tuukka View Post
              Stories with bad characters are successful to me, when I relate.

              I find it rather easy to relate to bad characters. I'm not like them, however, there is darkness in myself. And when I see that darkness projected to screen, I relate to an extent.

              There are some characters that are completely unlike myself, yet I still like them. This is more rare. Hannibal Lecter is a good example. But Hannibal is fiercely intelligent, charismatic, and with his own, strict moral code. So he is an admirable person to some extent. On some level I would also like to be that intelligent and charismatic. So I guess even then I relate.
              Hannibal Lecter is a very good example. But I consider him a combo co-protag/antag for Clarice who is the protag. Dexter of the same name TV show is another example. For me, these characters are admirable in the sense we admire an apex land predator like the lion who follows a natural code.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #22
                Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                King Kong is relatable. Who doesn't have some unwanted body hair?
                Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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                • #23
                  Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                  Originally posted by Southern_land View Post
                  HAS anyone ever thought that initially Walter White WAS the cat and that's why we felt for him? We wanted to save the cat.

                  Lets face it he was living an absolute **** life of total drudgery annnnddddd then he gets cancer! The poor bastard! Then he was incrementally nudged away from the straight and narrow. The artistry of the story was that we were taken with him for six series as he just got worse and worse
                  Forget “Save the Cat” for anything ’cept to shore up a wobbly table leg. Like he said, the dude just wanted to provide for his lady and child, man. Totally relatable. It just got out of hand, went awry, and all that, y’know?
                  “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                  • #24
                    Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                    Wolf of Wall Street is a good example. The Talented Mr. Ripley is another. We just want to see how it works out but we're not rooting for the protag.
                    How many of us would've seen these if it wasn't for Leo or Matt in the lead?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                      Wolf of Wall Street is a good example....We just want to see how it works out but we're not rooting for the protag.
                      Speak for yourself.
                      M.A.G.A.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                        Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                        Me too. And I'll always insist he wasn't a bad guy.
                        I hafta agree with you here, SundowninRetreat. For me, it's about that identification. As long as I can understand the WHY (their motive) they behave a certain way, then I can identify with the characters. Character contradictions contrasts make for compelling characters.

                        Feeling pity or "sorry" for Lector when Clarice lies to him about his view and his one day a year on an exclusive beach, under SWAT surveillance, of course, is one of those moments you always remember. We can identify with his pain and hurt by her betrayal on the one hand and then be revolted by the incredible violence when he murders the untrained police officers he befriends.

                        I would have enjoyed both The Talented Mr. Ripley and The Wolf of Wall Street without the "stars" attached because they are great stories and characters.
                        FA4
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                        • #27
                          Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                          It's interesting reading the comments because there are certain "bad" characters I can't ever relate to or identify with: drug dealers selling death and murderers.

                          I may find them interesting or even intriguing from a psychological point of view. Yet if they suffer a loss -- let's say the loss of a loved one -- I still have no empathy for them because they've taken the lives of others who were loved by someone so karma's a biotch.

                          With Silence of the Lambs, I only identified with Clarice. And if she had to play Hannibal and lie about his day at the beach, so be it. He was playing her by communicating with Buffalo Bill.

                          I watched Breaking Bad, season one, and a bit of season two, then lost interest. Sure, Walter White needs to finance his cancer treatment and also wants his family to be financially secure if he dies. Yet he has other options early on through a rich friend who offers him a job. He says, "No thanks," and chooses to cook meth. Rather soon, he's accumulated so much cash he's running of places to stash it. More than enough money for his treatment and his family. He still chooses the meth route.

                          To me, he's a dying man choosing to sell death to others -- I can't identify with him in any way. Although he may be morbidly interesting like watching a train wreck with morbid interest.

                          Without a doubt, my take on drug dealers/kingpins is because I've witnessed the devastation addiction wreaks on users and their families -- devastation that carries from one generation to the next.

                          As for cold stone murderers -- I'm mostly interested in seeing them get their comeuppance.

                          To each his/her own, I suppose.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                          • #28
                            Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                            Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                            Speak for yourself.
                            The "we" referred to the person I was responding to with whom I agreed.
                            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                              Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                              It's interesting reading the comments because there are certain "bad" characters I can't ever relate to or identify with: drug dealers selling death and murderers.

                              I watched Breaking Bad, season one, and a bit of season two, then lost interest.

                              To each his/her own, I suppose.
                              It is interesting, because I feel differently about different "bad" characters. I give you a lot of credit in making it into the second season of Breaking Bad.

                              I didn't make it to episode four.

                              I couldn't get past the entire premise. It took me until the final season came out before I even watched the first three episodes. I come from a family with addiction and to see a character glorified who causes another person harm in the reckless, selfish, corrupt way for profit, is a real turn off to me.

                              As far as identifying with other bad characters, well, I have this real empathetic streak-- I mean, it's not just crying at commercials, I get choked up with a sentimental greeting card.
                              Last edited by finalact4; 06-24-2020, 10:15 AM. Reason: because I spelled "empathetic" incorrectly. Shesh!
                              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                              • #30
                                Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                                I don't think anyone would lay down a script with an intriguing main character even if the script is not perfect.

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