Overdone Question About Length

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  • Overdone Question About Length

    Okay, so I know there are probably a thousand threads about the appropriate length of a screenplay, but my goofy arse couldn't seem to find any despite the search button.

    Throughout the books/discussions some say 120 pages max, others say 130 max. My current screenplay (2nd draft) cops out at about 131. I still have editing to do, but I'm just curious on anyone's -- professional? -- point of view. Mind you this will be my first screenplay.

    Thanks in advance, and again, I apologize for foolishly not finding the zillion other threads on the topic (no sarcasm).

    - L

  • #2
    Re: Overdone Question About Length

    I've seen some remarkable scripts from first-timers sell, despite a page count above 120 (or below 90). It's rare.

    The problem is that when you deviate from a standard page count, your writing ability and knowledge of the industry is immediately suspect. If someone goes into your script with that bias in mind, it can easily affect the read. They will notice problems that they might have ignored, otherwise.

    I'd do everything you can to get it under 120. Almost definitely, this is possible. Also, you'll probably be amazed at how much tighter your script feels.
    QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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    • #3
      Re: Overdone Question About Length

      Originally posted by Knaight View Post
      I've seen some remarkable scripts from first-timers sell, despite a page count above 120 (or below 90). It's rare.

      The problem is that when you deviate from a standard page count, your writing ability and knowledge of the industry is immediately suspect. If someone goes into your script with that bias in mind, it can easily affect the read. They will notice problems that they might have ignored, otherwise.

      I'd do everything you can to get it under 120. Almost definitely, this is possible. Also, you'll probably be amazed at how much tighter your script feels.
      Thanks for the speedy reply, and I know you're totally right. I needed to rehear it, because there is a bunch I can and should take out.

      I'm used to writing novels/stories where people usually expect longer -- sometimes CRAZY long -- but I know when I see "Yes ma'am" and not "Yes, Ma'am" the author's suspects.

      So thanks so much for this!

      - L

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      • #4
        Re: Overdone Question About Length

        Go to youtube. Type in screenwriting interviews. A bunch of top notch writers talking about the craft will pop up. Sometimes they will be asked what the toughest part of the screenwriting job is, none of them say character or plot. You know what they say? Length.

        The old standard used to be 120, I've been hearing that they really want to see 100 - 110 now. Does that mean yours 'can't' be 130? No. But that may not be what they are looking for.

        There's a video in youtube where John August lets you watch him rewrite a scene. You see how he identifies its problems and what he does to edit it. He makes it shorter and more to the point.

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        • #5
          Re: Overdone Question About Length

          Dragonov,

          The underlying assumption here seems to be that your 131 pages were produced according to some kind of standard, with the result that 131 really means something.

          But we know nothing about your script. Things of importance in creating a script that comes out to 131 pages are:

          Software
          Final Draft, Screenwriter, Word, other programs
          Margins
          Margin settings for page
          Margin settings for paragraphs
          How end-of-page breaks are handled
          Wasted space
          How many completely unnecessary parentheticals do you have?

          Do you have lots of wasted "white space" because of really short action paragraphs (like one line)?
          Font
          A script in Final Draft or Screenwriter with their native Courier fonts might be 110 pages, but 130 in Word with Courier New.

          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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          • #6
            Re: Overdone Question About Length

            Search the word "count" in the "Header" portion alone.

            http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ighlight=count

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            • #7
              Re: Overdone Question About Length

              From what I've read, if you've formatted it about right in terms of font, margins, # of lines/pg, I think shooting for approxiimately 95-115 pages will squarely put you in the ball park. Genre type impacts as well.

              Good luck!
              " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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              • #8
                Re: Overdone Question About Length

                OP -

                Considering this is your first script, and that it's 131 pages, and you haven't started the real editing process yet, I'd say you're in pretty good shape to get it below 120. Be sure to take some time away from it, so you can look at it with fresh eyes. Then consider things you've probably heard before:

                Are all of your parentheticals really necessary.
                Do you have many lines with one word (orphans) that you can fix.
                When it comes to scenes, arrive late and leave early.
                Are there unneeded redundancies in dialogue, action, or scenes.
                Are there transition scenes you don't really need.
                Combine scenes so that one scene can do the work of three.
                Don't go off on tangents that don't push the story forward.
                Tighten everything up.

                Good luck.
                "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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                • #9
                  No one has ever complained about mine...

                  Though it all depends on the story, 110 seems to be the current sweet spot.

                  But if every word on every page is gold, it doesn't matter.

                  Guess what? If every word on every page isn't gold... a 110 page script is a problem.

                  Most people don't do the savage rewrite where they really cut out all of the stuff they love... that gets in the way of the story. My advice is always to rewrite - rewrite - rewrite. Combine scenes, characters, events - anything that *can* be combined. Focus the story. Take your logline and anything that isn't that logline is trash. If you cut everything that can be cut and you are still at 131 pages - you may have some readers who will initially hate you, but your script will win them over, right?

                  - Bill
                  Free Script Tips:
                  http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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                  • #10
                    Re: Overdone Question About Length

                    This may qualify as not useful, and it's certainly somewhat self-contradictory.

                    I've read over 500 amateur scripts in the past five years. Some of those have been quite good. A few could have been shot as-is. However, not one has been over 120 pages and needed to be that long. Not one.

                    Although I can't speak with the same certainty, I'd say none of the scripts that were, say, over 115 needed to be as long as they were. Generally anywhere over that and it's trivially easy for me to spot a way to trim five pages.

                    That being said, the script I broke in with - got me my first agent, first job - was, I think, 123. Somewhere in there. Definitely over 120. I'm willing to bet if I looked at it again today I could cut five pages, but I haven't looked at it in a few years, and early drafts were in the high 130s. (It is, I think, telling - my writing partner and I - who in a year or so would be working pros, so we at least sort of knew what we were doing - wrote a script that we could pull nearly 20 pages out of).

                    If you know what you're doing and you're really making every page count, then of course you can go over 120. Honestly "knowing what you're doing and making every page count" are the real problem, not the page count, but ever amateur script I've read which went over 120 was written by someone who didn't.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Overdone Question About Length

                      What's your genre? It can make a difference in page count. I've gotten notes back that my horror scripts should be around 100 or less if possible. My comedies should be at 105-110. In general, I've heard 110 to 115 is preferable from newbies, if for nothing else, it gives the appearance that you've trimmed the fat. Yes, it's about appearances, but a reader who reads multiple scripts a day is more likely to pluck yours if it's shorter than a 130-word opus that they may assume meanders since you're a newbie.

                      The thing about page count vs genre (from my limited experience) does matter, in so far as getting someone to open your script (or file). Obviously, if your tale is kick-ass and just so happens to run 130 pages and keeps the reader turning pages till FADE OUT, you need not cut a thing. But keep in mind that to have that reader even BEGIN reading your script, 130 may signify a red flag that you haven't trimmed enough or that your screenplay meanders.

                      Mind you, in contest and festival entries, it may matter less (depending on what their guidelines for length are), because they HAVE to begin reading it. But if sending to a proco or agent (w/out contest creds) then a long length may deter the reader.

                      Read scripts online in your genre (not production scripts or director scripts, which are usually longer due to shot lines) and see how long they are. Action/adventure scripts trend longer due to action blocks. Comedy scripts trend shorter due to lack of action set pieces. Not a rule, but definitely a trend.

                      Size does matter.

                      I'm not a produced writer yet (outside of a stage play that was produced in L.A.), but I've come close and have faced the beast with all its snarling teeth. It's ugly, but I'm convinced it's conquerable.

                      Hope this helps.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Overdone Question About Length

                        Coming from novel-writing, I used to view 130 pages as being truncated, Procrustean, impossible to achieve without violence to the work.

                        After a few years of writing scripts, I bring in most of them at 107 Final Draft Courier pages quite comfortably, no chopping needed.

                        Now I'm shooting for 107 New Courier pages ...

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                        • #13
                          Re: Overdone Question About Length

                          AWESOME comments, guys!

                          Here's the facts-

                          Final Draft 8, Cole & Haag format. Fantasy, Drama, Action.

                          I've got it butchered down to 120, exactly, but definitely need to re-check. Get rid of one liners, etc.

                          I've butchered the parentheticals.

                          There's not much white space, however there are some (maybe more haha) of the below-

                          HARRY'S POV - CAR INTERIOR

                          Dead bodies. Gore. Blah blah, etc.

                          BACK TO SCENE
                          and

                          He unrolls the

                          MAP --

                          It's aged and yellowed.

                          Thoughts?

                          Thanks for all the help!!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Overdone Question About Length

                            Thoughts?
                            He unrolls an aged, yellowed MAP...

                            Just seems alot, five lines to create this image, plus likely one line to follow this shot. Unless of course, you need to utilize the MAP to create white space in a script area where there's already lengthy, dense description and action lines. Good luck!
                            " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Overdone Question About Length

                              My rule of thumb is to think of each line as a single shot, or having a single subject or action. (Until I need to really tighten up, then I'll load 'em up.) And the line drives toward what we want the eye to wind up on at the end.

                              In this case, the map would be that single subject, because we would see the map being unrolled and its color all at once = one line. If there was information on the map that was revealed once we looked at it, that MIGHT warrant a new line.

                              The good news is, that if you have a lot of segments like this, you'll be able to tighten it up a lot.

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