Spider-Man Casting for MCU

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  • Spider-Man Casting for MCU

    Since our conversations about James Bond/Ghostbusters have been so fun.

    I think the idea of casting a white actor to play Spider-Man as he enters the MCU is completely wrong, and more-so against the entire concept of the character.

    The things that make Peter Parker an great character is place as an outsider. He's a poor kid from a working-class neighborhood in New York City. He didn't really know his parents, raised by other family members instead. He always struggles financially. He is ostracized at school.

    But when he puts on the Spider-Man costume, the world sees him as someone else. It's hard to suspect Peter Parker is Spider-Man in the same way that Superman's secret identity is never really an issue. People look at this hero they idolize and never in a million years can imagine that the person behind the costume is a stumbling goofball (Kent) or a poor teenager who's social life is nothing but problems (Parker).

    The Miles Morales version of Spider-Man is way more true to the original concept of the character. I think a mixed race kid highlights what makes Spider-Man great in ways that a white actor cannot.

    Have at me.

  • #2
    Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

    Looking back over some of those conversations, I have no doubt that they were "fun" for some people. It's always fun to be on the side that has the majority of voices (in this case, those who want to change the race or gender of previously white male characters) and to gang up on the one or two outsiders who have minority viewpoints (in this case, those who want to preserve the original race and gender of those characters) and to engage in some name-calling of them and their viewpoints, deeming them morally deficient, while presenting oneself as morally superior and feeling self-righteous, isn't it?

    But ironically, the original post suggests another way in which a white actor playing Spider-Man would be quite effective, by way of ramping up the isolation and alienation factor. If Peter Parker is indeed a "poor kid in a working-class neighborhood in New York City," then he could easily be a minority white kid in a majority black or Hispanic neighborhood, and a minority white kid going to a majority black or Hispanic school. Yes, that would indeed increase the potential or actuality of his ostracism in numerous ways.

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    • #3
      Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

      Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
      Since our conversations about James Bond/Ghostbusters have been so fun.

      I think the idea of casting a white actor to play Spider-Man as he enters the MCU is completely wrong, and more-so against the entire concept of the character.

      The things that make Peter Parker an great character is place as an outsider. He's a poor kid from a working-class neighborhood in New York City. He didn't really know his parents, raised by other family members instead. He always struggles financially. He is ostracized at school.

      But when he puts on the Spider-Man costume, the world sees him as someone else. It's hard to suspect Peter Parker is Spider-Man in the same way that Superman's secret identity is never really an issue. People look at this hero they idolize and never in a million years can imagine that the person behind the costume is a stumbling goofball (Kent) or a poor teenager who's social life is nothing but problems (Parker).

      The Miles Morales version of Spider-Man is way more true to the original concept of the character. I think a mixed race kid highlights what makes Spider-Man great in ways that a white actor cannot.

      Have at me.
      It feels like you're trying to get a rise out of some people....
      "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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      • #4
        Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

        I agree with you, about Spiderman, but I haven't seen any of the films, since Spiderman 2, so I'll refrain from commenting on what future films should be.

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        • #5
          Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

          Originally posted by Furious Anjel View Post
          It feels like you're trying to get a rise out of some people....
          Yeah.

          The notion that a white Spider-Man is "wrong" or "goes against" the character is just sort of silly.

          That being said, I would love to see Miles Morales version of the character on screen (well, as much as I want to see any of those characters onscreen. I already have superhero fatigue).

          That being said, from what I know of "Civil War," that doesn't seem like a storyline to radically reshape the character.

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          • #6
            Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

            I'd like to see Miles introduced down the line. Otherwise you're missing the chance to kill Peter and have it mean something.

            I remember when there used to be discussions that weren't so race intensive. Good times. To say that white actors can't portray adversity as well as actors of other races is almost troll worthy.

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            • #7
              Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

              Originally posted by karsten View Post
              Looking back over some of those conversations, I have no doubt that they were "fun" for some people. It's always fun to be on the side that has the majority of voices (in this case, those who want to change the race or gender of previously white male characters) and to gang up on the one or two outsiders who have minority viewpoints (in this case, those who want to preserve the original race and gender of those characters) and to engage in some name-calling of them and their viewpoints, deeming them morally deficient, while presenting oneself as morally superior and feeling self-righteous, isn't it?

              But ironically, the original post suggests another way in which a white actor playing Spider-Man would be quite effective, by way of ramping up the isolation and alienation factor. If Peter Parker is indeed a "poor kid in a working-class neighborhood in New York City," then he could easily be a minority white kid in a majority black or Hispanic neighborhood, and a minority white kid going to a majority black or Hispanic school. Yes, that would indeed increase the potential or actuality of his ostracism in numerous ways.
              I enjoy these conversations, though I agree, when people come in and start throwing person insults, it ruins everything. All I want is a spirited debate, but when others come in and start throwing around the word "racist," no rational points are discussed anymore and it just becomes a brawl.

              I don't consider anyone racist for believing that they'd have a hard time accepting a black James Bond off his history both in the world of Ian Flemming's novels or real world history. It's just a preference/point of view.

              But as for the Spider-Man debate, look at all the flips you have to do in order to balance it out. You have to make him a white kid at a majority black or Latino school. You have to take the people that are by in large the oppressed and make them the oppressors. It's like rich people who say they know what it's like to work for a living because their parents made them wait tables at the country club over the summer.

              And we're talking about adding him to the Avengers universe. What do we have there? Captain America, a super soldier created in Patriotic navel-gazing style. Thor, a Norse God with pale skin and flowing blond hair. Iron Man, a billionaire playboy. The Hulk, a genius nerd scientist. And then Hawkeye and Black Widow. You know what that team needs? Another white guy.

              On top of that, they're pushing back Black Panther's movie to make room for Spider-Man.

              I can think of dozens of reason that Spider-Man shouldn't be a white guy, and only really one of why he should: because that's what he's been in the past.

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              • #8
                Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                Originally posted by Furious Anjel View Post
                It feels like you're trying to get a rise out of some people....
                And that's a bad thing?

                I strive in all my writing to get a rise out of people. To make them rethink what they decided is the truth in their minds.

                I want to make an impact, not just be another of the chorus.

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                • #9
                  Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                  I want to make an impact, not just be another of the chorus.
                  The lack of self-awareness here is funny. On these change-the-race/gender threads, your POV is most obviously the "chorus."

                  But as for the Spider-Man debate, look at all the flips you have to do in order to balance it out. You have to make him a white kid at a majority black or Latino school. You have to take the people that are by in large the oppressed and make them the oppressors.
                  I don't have to do any "flips." You wanted racial tension and alienation to be part of the ostracization that Peter Parker is dealing with, and I gave you a scenario in which he would be facing it -- and a very likely one, given that he is, as you said, "a poor kid from a working-class neighborhood in New York City." There, the minority-white situation is frequently the case, and is growing more frequent all the time.

                  It's like rich people who say they know what it's like to work for a living because their parents made them wait tables at the country club over the summer.
                  No, it is pointedly not like that at all. In fact, it is the precise opposite of that.

                  But actually I agree with you about a point that you made:

                  The things that make Peter Parker an great character is place as an outsider. He's a poor kid from a working-class neighborhood in New York City. He didn't really know his parents, raised by other family members instead. He always struggles financially. He is ostracized at school.
                  That's right. Peter Parker is a "great character" in part because he is an ostracized outsider. As you say. And, mirabile dictu, that is accomplished with him being white -- because whites can, very obviously, (and as your statement acknowledges,) be ostracized outsiders from working-class neighborhoods who struggle financially, and with whose plight audiences abundantly empathize.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                    Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                    And that's a bad thing?

                    I strive in all my writing to get a rise out of people. To make them rethink what they decided is the truth in their minds.

                    I want to make an impact, not just be another of the chorus.

                    While that's an admirable goal, throwing out provocative statements just for the hell of it, won't cause folks to rethink their truth or foster thoughtful conversation. Doesn't require a lot of talent either. Anyone can start a flame war.

                    Your have "dozens" of reasons for a Black Spider-Man, but the only thing you mention are the Avengers being too white and minority kids needing a more relatable hero. They aren't terrible reasons, but first and second on your list? You sound more interested in sticking it to the racists than anything else.
                    "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                      Originally posted by karsten View Post
                      The lack of self-awareness here is funny. On these change-the-race/gender threads, your POV is most obviously the "chorus."
                      On these threads, yes. In the world at large, not so much.

                      Originally posted by karsten View Post
                      I don't have to do any "flips." You wanted racial tension and alienation to be part of the ostracization that Peter Parker is dealing with, and I gave you a scenario in which he would be facing it -- and a very likely one, given that he is, as you said, "a poor kid from a working-class neighborhood in New York City." There, the minority-white situation is frequently the case, and is growing more frequent all the time.

                      No, it is pointedly not like that at all. In fact, it is the precise opposite of that.
                      Yeah. It's the way of saying "Hey, white people face discrimination, too. Let me point out this one very specific example and try to equate it to the massively common situations of an entire minority."

                      The "flips" are putting the oppressed minorities in the position of the oppressors. Then we can all say "Oh, poor Peter Parker. He's just trying to fit in, but all those mean black and Latino students are keeping him down." That's exactly the type of stories we should be telling right now. How tough it is to be a white person in America.

                      So white Peter Parker has it tough at school, but out in the real world, he's right back being part of the majority, just in time to join all the other white heroes and save the world.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                        Couldn't they just stick with Flash Thompson being an ******* instead? I don't think a racially obsessed Spider-Man is necessary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                          I don't really care what race he is, I just don't want to watch his origin story for the third time in 10 years of whatever it's been. It'd be nice if they could just start him off as an established superhero, doing his superhero thing.

                          I guess I could handle a Miles Morales origin story, though, since iirc it's already tied in with SHIELD and the rest of the team in a helpful way. I'm very attached to Peter Parker because Spider-Man was far and away my favorite comic growing up, but I suppose I'm willing to move on if they do a good enough job with it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                            I've got no problem with Peter Parker being mixed race or black. Like James Bond or Nick Fury, he doesn't have to be white.

                            ETA: I'm trying to think of a comic book character who has to be white...The only ones off the top of my head are maybe Dr. Strange or Batman. (The Blue Beetle, but maybe that's 'cause I wouldn't mind being Blue Beetle.)

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                            • #15
                              Re: Spider-Man Casting for MCU

                              Originally posted by Richmond Weems View Post
                              ETA: I'm trying to think of a comic book character who has to be white...The only ones off the top of my head are maybe Dr. Strange or Batman. (The Blue Beetle, but maybe that's 'cause I wouldn't mind being Blue Beetle.)
                              There are characters that I feel being white is built into their stories. Like Steve Rogers and Thor.

                              Rogers because he was engineered by the government and used as a symbol fighting in World War II. Now while it probably would make more sense that the government would experiment on black soldiers (because they did), but I find it hard to believe that the government of the 1940s would hold up a black man as they symbol of America because of the racial tensions at the time.

                              Though I do like that Marvel is having Sam Wilson take over as Captain America. Similar to Miles as an alternate Spider-Man it's a way to explore new grounds with the hero without changing the character.

                              Thor because he's a Norse God. We create our gods to be like us, and the Norse mythology was created by some of the palest people of all time (where my ancestry lies). It also might be why I have barely any interest in the character. I always found him kinda bland, except when he was replaced by Beta Ray Bill.

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