Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

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  • #91
    Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
    Perhaps, if the writers of Breaking handled this differently and put Walter completely against the wall, no other options, I may have bought into it and had more empathy. But they didn't. And I got bored.
    Not that I absolutely raved about and loved the show Breaking Bad; we binge-watched all seasons last year, some 11 years after the first episode. Someone performed a lot of research for that show; I knew nothing of the meth world and received something of a rapid education through watching the show. It was compelling to see how the twists and turns came, but I could have left off watching it and come back later, too.

    Even so, I contend the writers of “Breaking Bad” did put Walter up against his wall. For him, it was all about leaving behind enough money on which his wife and children could live comfortably after his death. He simply became prideful and greedy, two of the deadliest of the seven sins. He may have become guilty of other sins, too.
    “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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    • #92
      Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

      Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
      Even so, I contend the writers of “Breaking Bad” did put Walter up against his wall. For him, it was all about leaving behind enough money on which his wife and children could live comfortably after his death.
      Exactly. Just because some would take the other option he was offered doesn't mean it's implausible that someone else - Walter - wouldn't. Had that alternate option paid out a $50 million lump sum then it would be a stretch to believe Walter would prefer to cook meth, but it didn't, and so his decision is plausible. Similarly I wouldn't hunt down the thugs that raped and murdered my partner but it's understandable why Paul Kersey did.


      Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
      I've been meaning to watch The Shield. I think I'd like it.
      Hopefully you'll be hooked from the start but don't be surprised if you feel the opening episodes are a bit episodic - different crime each episode, where you feel there's no continuity - as they're all about introducing us to the main players. After that it becomes more serialised, one long, extending narrative that runs throughout the entire series. It's also the only show I've watched where each season is more intense than the last, as the Strike Team struggle to maintain their cover as their indiscretions mount up and their antics questioned.
      M.A.G.A.

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      • #93
        Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

        Is there such thing as a series or movie that pleases everybody? Ive met people who didn't like Game Of Thrones and Sopranos.

        I just watched Gemini last night with Will Smith. It was co-written by Benioff who is a very accomplished writer. Directed by Ang Lee, a very accomplished director.

        *************SPOILERS*****************

        I can't believe the b.g. to the hero is that who is a CIA hitman who wants out of the game and retire. Been done a million times.

        I can't believe the plot revolved around a Rogue Agency that he once turned down to work for, wants our hero dead. Another tried and true storyline in this genre. Been done a million times.

        The concept does have a good hook, IMO, which is why I gave it a shot. A man faces a much younger, more elite version of himself because this secret agency stole his DNA and cloned him. This has been done before so it is not totally original, in Looper the main character encounters a younger self.

        The choice of the writers was to have the hero try to save the clone from this evil agency and try to convince him that the agency is the bad guys and he is the good guys and that they are the same.

        Clone and hero defeat the agency and the last "boss" at the end they must defeat is a third clone, the the next iteration of the hero. A super clone with all the bugs fixed.

        In the end the clone goes off to college and lives a normal life and hero retires with the girl.

        I don't think the character was any of the things listed in the heading of this thread.

        There were scenes in the First Act where two bad guys talk about their history with the hero. It's obvious the writers wanted us to understand the relationship between the hero and the evil agency.

        The end of their ACT 1 was the hero overcoming that first attempt on his life by like 8 assassins. That also an act climax that has been done in this genre a zillion times.

        At the start of ACT 2, hero calls an "old buddy" to come get him and help him hide. Agency finds out where he is and send this clone to go get him.

        From then on Hero and clone travel the world a bit dueling with the hero narrowly escaping each time.

        Hero convinces clone that Agency is the bad guys.

        Act 3 is that battle with this clone(who has been a henchman of the puppet master) teaming with the hero. This kind of thing has also been done a million times. Last Samurai used this technique as well. The hero teaming with those who he once viewed as the enemy against the real evil force.

        *************************

        Was very unimpressed with it. But somebody liked it. Somebody put tens of millions into it. It was at least co-written by a very good writer so I know it the narrative was well written. It's ok not to like Citizen Kane or The Godfather or North By Northwest.

        It's possible people do not like Breaking Bad. Ive never watched it, but I can tell when a show is well received when in social gatherings I hear people talking about it. And I heard plenty of people tell me that Breaking Bad was the best show on TV when it was on. I heard the same thing about Game Of Thrones(never watched that either). But I had Aunts and Uncles in their 60s tell me they can't wait for the next episode, same with people in their 20s. People loved that show, same with Breaking Bad.

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        • #94
          Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

          Is there such thing as a series or movie that pleases everybody?
          Who doesn't like Casablanca?

          --fallen

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          • #95
            Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

            Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
            Hopefully you'll be hooked from the start but don't be surprised if you feel the opening episodes are a bit episodic - different crime each episode, where you feel there's no continuity - as they're all about introducing us to the main players. After that it becomes more serialised, one long, extending narrative that runs throughout the entire series. It's also the only show I've watched where each season is more intense than the last, as the Strike Team struggle to maintain their cover as their indiscretions mount up and their antics questioned.
            Wow, it sounds right up my alley. I'm definitely doing this show next, after I finish up Run.

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

              Some of my favorite anti-hereos...

              Oscar the Grouch
              Wile E Coyote
              Archie Bunker
              Sawyer from LOST
              Jack Bauer
              Dr. Loomis
              Willy Wonka

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                Some of my favorite anti-hereos...

                Oscar the Grouch
                Wile E Coyote
                Archie Bunker
                Sawyer from LOST
                Jack Bauer
                Dr. Loomis
                Willy Wonka
                Snake Plissken
                Han Solo
                Lenny Nero
                Godzilla
                Dirty Harry
                Al Bundy
                Edmund Blackadder
                Basil Fawlty
                Gene Hunt
                M.A.G.A.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                  Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                  Is there such thing as a series or movie that pleases everybody? Ive met people who didn't like Game Of Thrones and Sopranos.
                  I think it's a huge mistake to try to make something that will appeal to everyone. It's impossible and I think that's one of the reasons so many recent features feel bland and soulless. I get the financial incentive but it stinks as a fan. I think quality would rise if we saw a lot more mid budget movies but they seem to be mostly dead now.

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                  • #99
                    Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                    As far as anti-heroes-

                    Walter White
                    William Munny
                    Ethan Edwards
                    Richard B. Riddick
                    Conan
                    Inigo Montoya
                    Marv

                    Comment


                    • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                      Originally posted by DDoc View Post
                      I think it's a huge mistake to try to make something that will appeal to everyone. It's impossible and I think that's one of the reasons so many recent features feel bland and soulless. I get the financial incentive but it stinks as a fan. I think quality would rise if we saw a lot more mid budget movies but they seem to be mostly dead now.

                      Nothing appeals to everyone. Some people don't like sex. And sex has a very high approval rating.


                      But yes I agree. Especially for comedy -- nothing is more annoying to me that trying to write jokes that are funny but won't offend people -- if a joke isn't offending someone it's probably just a statement not a joke.


                      So yes, some things have more fans like Star Wars, but what gets me most excited is Clerks and One Crazy Summer and horror movies. Die hard fans, but if you asked 100 people if they like Halloween, maybe 20 like it, 2 love it. I'm writing my movies for "me" when I was 8. Or at least I'm trying to do that.

                      And irony is -- I find the more personal a movie is to the writer/director -- often those are the ones that touch the most people. So by only trying to please yourself you wind up pleasing more than if you try to please everyone.

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                      • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                        Agreed. Comedy is probably especially tough right now. I read a story on reddit where a duo said they had a Hangover type script that got them some meetings. They said one of the producers or execs or whatever loved it and told them he would've bought it a few years ago but it can't happen now. Not sure if it's true.

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                        • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                          Sounds true. I was telling myself a month ago I should write a Buddy Cop like comedy -- and then like days later America changed. And I think even I changed more than I ever expected too. So even I don't want to write that script now.

                          It can work both ways. I was watching China Syndrome and learned that people were saying it was pure fiction and giving nuclear power a bad name and then 12 days later 3 mile island happened and made the movie a bigger hit because of it.

                          Art is life. Life is art. It's always entangled.

                          I will leave out my views on editing out/censoring works of the past -- but if you are working on scripts today you got to keep this stuff in mind. But you can't predict the future.

                          I could have finished a buddy cop script 2 months ago and then I'll be like -- well -- I have to write something else. Just the way it is.

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                          • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                            I'll only offer my opinion.

                            Focus on writing something timeless and the politics won't be an issue. If you're writing something in a particular time period, it can still be timeless. Find a way. One of my scripts takes place in a world where women aren't necessarily viewed as equals. But I made the second main character a teenager who breaks that norm, and there's also a bit in there where a young girl says something to the effect of "women are better chefs than men" because she grows up in a world where women do all the cooking. Men are actually the best chefs in the world -- and an older gentleman promptly corrects her. But there's also an important piece of dialogue where in he tells her that while men are skilled in the kitchen, women are also very skilled outside of it. It's not something you would hear in that world/culture, in that period of time. If writing a time period piece, think about creating some dialogue or characters that are ahead of their time, and that's how you can ensure a timeless piece of work, that sidesteps politics. I don't write scripts to dive into those issues, because quite frankly they might be engaging, but they're not good movies in my humble opinion. And this goes back to what the purpose of film is, and that is first and foremost to entertain. If you have something written that might be offensive, either think about changing some parts, or just shelve it for awhile until people calm down. A lot of people in California are overly sensitive as it is, even before all this. It is an impulsive state, and an impulsive town (hollywood). Give yourself and advantage by thinking ahead and seeing what will hit home with global audiences now, years from now, and so on.

                            My two cents.

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                            • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                              Vango -- you may have a great post -- but with no spacing I can't read it just like I skip over action blocks over 4 lines in specs.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Protags: Likable? Relatable? Empathetic? Or is intriguing enough?

                                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                                Vango -- you may have a great post -- but with no spacing I can't read it just like I skip over action blocks over 4 lines in specs.
                                Lol. Search through the schrub and you may (or may not) find something valuable.

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