New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

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  • New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

    Hello all:
    Some of you may recall that I was converting my feature epic sci-fi spec to a TV pilot. I set it up and paid for a review yesterday and it came back today. Yep that's right, a one day turnaround.

    It's got some good things to say, but just like the feature they nailed me HARD on the budget. I think the reviewer has a good point of view. So, would scaling it down help? Running it through the lens of only the two main characters? There are actual 6 main characters.

    So, I've decided to write three more projects before I actually tackle writing the Novel. Then I'll bounce back to features/TV.

    So, I need some advice on how to potentially exploit these specs. Does anyone care that you can create a complex world that feels real. Does this have any value in a writer's room? I guess maybe the writer's room is to focus on the showrunner's idea's an not your own-- so scatch that.

    I don't have an agent, so how do I get my work in the hands of a showrunner? Or is that a futile goal without an agent? I guess, what I'm really asking, is how to I turn this into something that gets me one step closer to getting a writing gig? Or is it better to keep moving on, which is what I'm doing. Working on a smaller crime noir thriller.

    Can it be used to get a OWA? I know they stick to known writers, but is it good to have my manager submit them as samples? How does one turn a writing sample into a gig?

    I appreciate an advice you may offer-- I'm just another writer trying to find her way in... I just want to write all the time.

    Also, if any knows, is it possible to use these specs to send to a novel agent to get a publisher to commission the novels? I'd love to get paid to write them, you know. I know, pie in the sky.

    If you'd like to read the pilot, it's available to writers to download. Don't worry, it really doesn't have triple digit characters and the It's only 63 pages, so hopefully it's not a drag

    The title is WASTELAND: THE SIXTH STATE -- PILOT


    BLACK LIST REVIEW
    Era:
    2463

    Locations:
    Alternate Future Earth

    Genre:
    Action & Adventure, Adventure Drama, Sci-Fi & Fantasy, Sci-Fi Disaster Films

    Logline:
    In a post-apocalyptic virus-ravaged future, six utopian cities stand protected by a force shield, encased from all sides by the forgotten, unprotected wastelands. When Tessa, a young heir to the throne, is called upon as a healer, a great adventure gets set in motion. An adventure that threatens to reveal dangerous political alliances that could bring down the empire itself.

    Strengths:
    A well written, action packed sci-fi pilot, conceived on an epic scale and coming across as what could only be described as BORDERLANDS done in the style of GAME OF THRONES. The scope of this futuristic premise is nothing short of immense (literally every scene involves ground up world building), but skilfully, the complex idea of an epic post-virus Utopia is presented in a way that never feels too complicated, thanks to a clearly laid out post-apocalyptic opening, and a comfortable reliance on well established genre troupes. The dialogue seems so committed to this reality, sprouting future slang and sci-fi terms like they were common place, at some point, the reader just joins in on the ride. The sheer amount of characters introduced here is often daunting (possibly approaching triple digits), but the pilot shines at its best when focussed on the wasteland anti-hero Novak (cut from the same cloth as Star Lord or Han Solo), and doomed royal heir Tessa (a fun twist on a princess archetype). The bringing together of their stories in the last act opens up a huge spiderweb of narrative directions for further episodes, and seems loosely structured around this very idea. Styx, the robot sidekick, is another great creation, and is so compelling (and amusing) at times, he threatens to steal the entire show.

    Weaknesses:
    Whilst we are certainly in a golden age of television, the budget required to pull of even a third of this pilot would be nothing short of the most monumental undertaking in network history (and from a business stand point - very unlikely as it’s original I.P). The scale of this pilot needs to be brought down to ever get taken seriously. Less worlds (cities). Less characters. Less explosions. It currently reads like a very expensive Hollywood feature film, stripped in half, with very little in the way of reusable assets. Prime Minister Ayres makes for a fun, morally ambiguous villain, and the use of Tessa’s “future-dreams” is a great way to glimpse into his machiavellian plans, but his more “political” moments in script (particularly the Consortium scene on pg. 26) echo a little to closely to the Galactic Senate concept that was used in the Star Wars Prequels. A concept that is universally despised for a reason. Laying out the exposition for this complex world through the eyes of Tessa is a far safer option, and a reason why the school visit scene (on pg. 43) works so well. It also helps with the scaling issue currently at hand. Tessa and Novak are the clear protagonists of this show. This would work far better if the entire story was only ever framed through their eyes.

    TV series potential:
    In its current incarnation, prospects for a sale are unlikely. It’s not that the idea isn’t strong enough, it’s simply to do with the sheer size and cost. It goes from a fun idea to commercial suicide, and most producers will likely view this as a solid and creative writing sample as opposed to something they’d ever actually undertake. The writing is strong, and some of the concepts in here are HUGELY imaginative and marketable (eg. what kid wouldn’t want a moodipet plush?). There hasn’t been a rugged, Indiana-Jones like adventure hero such as Novak on tv screens for a long time, and this is another huge asset to the work, but further development will be essential before sending out. The scale is just unmanageable as it is, even for tv.

    Pages:
    63
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

  • #2
    Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

    FWIW, I think you should be happy with your script and move on to write something new.
    I wouldn't worry about showrunners or writing rooms or agents or books. I'd just open a new file and start writing. Try to be smart and have a plan and strategery and all that, but sometimes the river's going in one particular direction and that's where you're going. Some strategic, organized, calculating person with a plan will probably have advice that's more useful for you. Congrats on the cool script and good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

      Originally posted by cvolante View Post
      FWIW, I think you should be happy with your script and move on to write something new.
      I wouldn't worry about showrunners or writing rooms or agents or books. I'd just open a new file and start writing. Try to be smart and have a plan and strategery and all that, but sometimes the river's going in one particular direction and that's where you're going. Some strategic, organized, calculating person with a plan will probably have advice that's more useful for you. Congrats on the cool script and good luck.
      Thanks, Cvolante. I am happy with it.

      Yes, I do have a plan. I'm not starting the novels yet, maybe next year or later, if at all. But if there was a way to get into it faster, well then, I'm all ears, you know? While I'm working on my next project I'm looking for things that can help me get into the industry using my current specs as samples is all.

      I'd rather be writing than my current day job, you know?

      Maybe a lower budget thriller will be the ticket. You never know. Thanks for the good advice. I appreciate it, and thanks for the kind words.
      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

        if you turned it into a pilot, presumably you want to work in TV, unless the only reason you made the change was to try and sell it? (that's probably not going to happen no matter what the scale or budget)

        depending on the score, try and use the pilot and its Black List results to target managers for repping you

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

          Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
          if you turned it into a pilot, presumably you want to work in TV, unless the only reason you made the change was to try and sell it? (that's probably not going to happen no matter what the scale or budget)

          depending on the score, try and use the pilot and its Black List results to target managers for repping you
          I do already have a manager, and yes, I would like to write for TV, or features. Either would serve me well. I wrote the pilot because I wanted to have it made. I know it's a long stretch. So, how do I get it in the hands of showrunners to even view it for consideration? I think I need an agent. I just don't know how else to access showrunners. And don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that they'd want to hire me, I'm just looking for an open door.

          it has been sent to 5 of the top agencies, but that's only 5 top people. My manager doesn't want to get it overexposed. So, we're going slow. I'm trying to figure out how to leverage the script(s) to help me, if it can.

          This script and even the pilot wasn't really difficult for me to write. The idea, concepts and themes kind of poured out. So the world is solid enough and big enough for novels. It feels good to know that I still have that control.

          I'm just trying to work through the next steps while I work on the next project. I'm ready to make a move.

          It's interesting that the reviewer references Game of Thrones, because my manager asked me what I wanted to write and I said, "I want to write a Game of Thrones story set in a post apocalyptic, dystopian world. So, it seems I got that part right.
          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

            It sounds awesome! I hope you forgive me for chuckling when the reviewer wrote "most monumental undertaking in network history". Brilliant.

            If you have the time/inclination, maybe you could write a scaled down version of the pilot? Perhaps the viewpoint stays on one world/city, instead of introducing several, with just a hint of the larger world to come? (Just so you have it in your pocket if you get the meetings it sounds like it deserves.)

            Good luck, hope it opens some doors for you.
            @hairingtons

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

              Originally posted by hairingtons View Post
              It sounds awesome! I hope you forgive me for chuckling when the reviewer wrote "most monumental undertaking in network history". Brilliant.

              If you have the time/inclination, maybe you could write a scaled down version of the pilot? Perhaps the viewpoint stays on one world/city, instead of introducing several, with just a hint of the larger world to come? (Just so you have it in your pocket if you get the meetings it sounds like it deserves.)

              Good luck, hope it opens some doors for you.
              I chuckled, too. And that was only for ONE THIRD of the pilot! Ha! Pretty sure Game of Thrones is up there.

              For now moving on, but in between projects I could scale it down. Not a big deal. And probably wouldn't take too much time. It's a fantastic world, though.
              Best,
              FA4
              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                You have done your work, now let it sort itself out.

                I have a feeling you are close to be discovered.

                Your writing certainly deserves it.

                I wish you all the luck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                  Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                  Also, if any knows, is it possible to use these specs to send to a novel agent to get a publisher to commission the novels? I'd love to get paid to write them, you know. I know, pie in the sky.
                  They're called literary agents, just like in Hollywood. Unfortunately you'd have to write the novel first before you start querying. Sucks, I know. But if you did write the novel and then sold it, you'd have an ip. Good luck. What was your Blacklist score?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                    Originally posted by vstm10 View Post
                    You have done your work, now let it sort itself out.

                    I have a feeling you are close to be discovered.

                    Your writing certainly deserves it.

                    I wish you all the luck.
                    What a lovely thing to say-- thank you for the kind words. You made my day.
                    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                      Originally posted by EnsconcedinVelvet View Post
                      They're called literary agents, just like in Hollywood. Unfortunately you'd have to write the novel first before you start querying. Sucks, I know. But if you did write the novel and then sold it, you'd have an ip. Good luck. What was your Blacklist score?
                      It was a 7... I've learned to not get hung up on the number. I've had 8s and 9s and 6s on the same project. The reviewer made it clear that in his opinion it would be near impossible to get made. I know it's well written, at least imo
                      And I think the act outs are good. It was s fun couple of weeks to write.
                      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                        Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                        1) So, I've decided to write three more projects before I actually tackle writing the Novel. Then I'll bounce back to features/TV.

                        2) ... I'm really asking, is how to I turn this into something that gets me one step closer to getting a writing gig?

                        3) Or is it better to keep moving on, which is what I'm doing. Working on a smaller crime noir thriller.


                        4) Also, if any knows, is it possible to use these specs to send to a novel agent to get a publisher to commission the novels? I'd love to get paid to write them, you know. I know, pie in the sky.
                        1) Wow, that is a lot of pressure you are putting on yourself.

                        2) No one can answer this. If anyone knew this they would be doing it for their own writing career.

                        3) YES, I think this is your best bet. It's proactive. It's focused. You've already proven over and over that you can write. Maybe a smaller (lower budget) thriller would be the best thing to accomplish right now.

                        4) As Ensconced already said, you can't use a script and ask them to pay you to write it in book form. You have to write the entire thing first, then get an agent. To be honest, I hate it that people keep telling screenwriters to just "create their own novels and wham, instant IP" as if novel writing is easy, or that there is any surety to it. Neither are true. Just because you write it doesn't mean you can get an agent, or get it published, much less that it will be a best seller and propel you into a screenwriting career.

                        My unsolicited advice = do not create novels out of this. I have a feeling if you felt they should be novels you would've written them that way to begin with (I could be wrong, but the fact you are asking others if you should do it, proves novel-writing is not where your passion lies, imo. I've had a book published, it is an entire world unto itself, just like screenwriting, and equally difficult).

                        You're good at writing scripts. Stick with it. Write smaller/lower budget.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                          Originally posted by figment View Post
                          1) Wow, that is a lot of pressure you are putting on yourself.
                          Doesn't seem like a lot of pressure to me. It's a plan.
                          2) No one can answer this. If anyone knew this they would be doing it for their own writing career.
                          People are always talking about good writing samples. I'm trying to understand how and when they are utilized to help a writer get work.

                          3) YES, I think this is your best bet. It's proactive. It's focused. You've already proven over and over that you can write. Maybe a smaller (lower budget) thriller would be the best thing to accomplish right now.
                          I'm working on it. I also have an idea for another pilot. That will take longer than the last one of course because it's not based on previous work.
                          4) As Ensconced already said, you can't use a script and ask them to pay you to write it in book form. You have to write the entire thing first, then get an agent. To be honest, I hate it that people keep telling screenwriters to just "create their own novels and wham, instant IP" as if novel writing is easy, or that there is any surety to it. Neither are true. Just because you write it doesn't mean you can get an agent, or get it published, much less that it will be a best seller and propel you into a screenwriting career.
                          Not trying to say it's easy. Just possible. They say create your own game and Gn as well. It's about franchise building-- not a bad idea IF you have a viable IP that translates across platforms.
                          My unsolicited advice = do not create novels out of this. I have a feeling if you felt they should be novels you would've written them that way to begin with (I could be wrong, but the fact you are asking others if you should do it, proves novel-writing is not where your passion lies, imo. I've had a book published, it is an entire world unto itself, just like screenwriting, and equally difficult).
                          I'm not really asking should I, because really without reading the material, I don't know how someone could judge it. But, it's an option on getting the material potentially to market. Not saying that will happen, but if it goes in that direction, it might be a good decision, down the road.
                          You're good at writing scripts. Stick with it. Write smaller/lower budget.
                          Well, I hope so. Some people seem to think so. But I guess the reality is that films are much harder to get into now days, and TV is in a golden era, so they say. Good material has been in TV for a few years now and a lot of feature writers have made the transition to TV for that very reason. They've adapted to the market.

                          I'll keep moving forward. Was trying to see how my work already done can work for me while in the process of other projects. Don't want to miss an opportunity if there is one.

                          Guess I have to write one that sells-- learning a lot along the way.

                          Thanks so much for the advice and help. Thank you to everyone.
                          Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 08-31-2016, 05:53 AM. Reason: Fixed quote code.
                          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                            Maybe a lower budget thriller will be the ticket. You never know.
                            That is very good advice to yourself.

                            I also agree with cvolante about moving on to something else.

                            Lisa, I do not think that I have ever encountered anyone with the degree of determination that you have. Well, at least not in anyone who actually had talent - which you have.

                            In my opinion, you just need to keep working and avoid getting bogged down in projects that may never succeed.

                            In the scripts that I read, I see several problems over and over. These are really an apples-and-oranges thing, so I cannot rank them. But here is a list right off the top of my head:
                            1. The script is incomplete, because it has almost no second act. The story starts, may seem interesting and appear to be going somewhere, but then very little happens and things start winding up.
                            2. The writing itself is so bad that it could have come from a kid in the ninth grade.
                            3. The author keeps writing the same script in version after version, in the hope that it will finally turn out right.
                            4. Too complicated (and therefore too expensive) from a production standpoint. Too many special effects, too many scenes, and the use of too many locales with special geographic features and essential properties like bridges, ferries, farm equipment, farm animals, and other animals. Aerial combat, space combat, raging seas, and battles at sea. It all goes on and on.
                            Even if the writer is not guilty of #1 and #2 in the list, #3 and #4 are all too common.

                            On a different issue ...

                            Write the novel if you want to. Just do not expect it to be a ticket out of your day job. Almost nobody makes a living from novels, despite all those sci-fi and YA novels and romances that you see in the bricks-and-mortar stores. Most novel writers have jobs or are married to someone with a job.

                            Although I do not know her personally, I know of a local woman in our small city who has written and published several romance novels in the Harlequin series over the years. But she has a day job as a nurse practitioner in a local clinic.

                            I doubt that you have ever heard of the novelist James Wilcox. He is in his late sixties now. He went to Yale and worked as an editor at a major publishing house. He has written and published nine comic novels. They are witty, literate, interesting, and colorful. They are real joys to read. But his work is almost unknown outside of a small following. He has supported himself for years by teaching creative writing at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.

                            The fact of the matter is that most of us are forever stuck in a day job.

                            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                            • #15
                              Re: New Black List Review - Suggestions on Approach for the Novel Series

                              Comicbent, I like you so much already and now even more so. Thank you for the kind words. I will be moving on from the idea of writing the novels, for now. I’m in no rush.

                              As it turns out, I do have an idea that’s been tugging at my mind for several days and I started writing down the shape of it. I think it’s most suited to TV and could easily have multiple seasons. Still in the sci-fi genre but not quite so big budget. The more I think about it, the more I want to develop it.

                              The thing I love most about sci-fi, aside from the characters, is the opportunity for social commentary. Showing both sides of the argument. I already know how the pilot begins and ends, even the first season ending cliffhanger.

                              If I can get it worked out before the holidays, maybe I can get someone to read it before the industry starts reading pilots for next year-- long shot, but stranger things have happened.

                              I also have a spec that I started that was in the top 15 of the Industry Insider Contest I wanted to finish—a noir thriller with a kind of Polanski “Ghost Writer” feel to it. Personal sensibilities aside he’s an amazing director. It’s a story I like quite a bit, and I kind of light up with excitement when I start talking about it.

                              But it has problems in the second act, of course. And I absolutely can blame it on the fact that I wrote it without knowing anything about the story. I had no net, and I really believe, for me anyway, a strong outline is the key to a solid first draft.

                              My heart is in film—

                              And the day job, well, I specifically took it, so that I would have less burden on my personal time and have the freedom to write at night. It was a pay cut, but I don’t have to travel and can stay at home on snow days or when my daughter’s sick. Yeah, I don’t get paid for those days and have to use my vaca/sick time, but I don’t get any pushback.

                              Snow days become writing days—after snow throwing, of course.

                              Thank you, Comicbent, cvolante, JoeBanks, hairingtons, vstm10, EnsconcedinVelvet, figment, for helping me.

                              Best,
                              Lisa
                              Last edited by finalact4; 08-31-2016, 07:36 PM.
                              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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