How to respond to notes

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  • How to respond to notes

    If anyone takes time to read your script, 1 page or 120 pages, say thank you. At least once. And mean it would be great.

    Don't be defensive and feel compeled to defend every point. Whether the notes are from a stranger on here or a friend or a producer -- most will be problems with your script. But if it's just "this is great" and no feedback that can help make it better -- well that's not as helpful as you think.

    You learn this as you go.

    Pro writers get notes and say "Thank you, I'll consider that" and newbies go "Here's why I did it right and you're wrong... I already fixed it in the rewrite... it's just a typo... i disagree... you're wrong... I'm right... yada yada..."

    And yes I'm sure there are a few pro writers that still think their **** doesn't stink, but most writers are good at handling notes. It's one of the most important skills to learn.

    Look up Kevin Smith being asked to write Superman and being told he can't fly, wear the suit and he has to fight a giant spider. He wrote it.

    Look up the Game of Thrones story about how the first pilot they shot was terrible and their good writer friend, like Craig Mazin of scriptnotes fame and done deal fame, had to tell them "it's terrible, do it all better." And they reshoot 90% of it.

    If people give you notes and you disagree with all of it, just say "thank you."

    If you want, it's better to ask questions than try to fight for your point.

    If three people point out a problem area, there is probably an issue with it.

    Sometimes people give you a note that sounds stupid when you first hear it, you hate it -- but then others bring it up -- or you think about it later and realize what the note is really about. They can say "I don't like the sister character" but you love her... how could she not be in this script?? Then you think about and realize the note was correct, taking out the sister made it better. Or the note was really saying something else and you fixed it another way...

    So many examples of how notes made great works better. If the artist didn't listen, they wouldn't have been as successful in their efforts. You need others to see stuff you can't see because you're too close.

    And as my film teacher said, "I can only judge by what you have on the screen or page, not what you think you have." You may think you are writing clear -- but you're not.

    The GOT pilot, it wasn't clear the 2 main characters in the pilot were related and if you've seen Game of Thrones that's kind of a big deal. They thought it was obvious, because it was obvious to them, but it did not come through in the actually pilot they made for 10 million dollars. Be thankful all you have to change is words in your script.

    Writing is rewriting.

    Learning how to take notes is a skill you learn over time. And it may be the most important one in our writer's toolbox.

  • #2
    Re: How to respond to notes

    giving notes is a tough thing.

    i am always very hesitant, for good reason.

    when i started writing, i was very fortunate to have a few mentors. i had one writer anonymously pay upfront for a story consultation with Pilar Alessandra on my behalf. they had met me at an expo and they did that for me.

    i learned early on to set aside personal feelings because the benefit and wisdom that came from working writers, writers at my same level, writers maybe not as far along as myself, and writers above my skillset was invaluable.

    i had this one writer who worked for channel 4 who mentored me on the side. he would remind me that i'm doing just fine on my own and a lot of the "chatter" of don't do this and don't do that i should ignore, because he believed in my writing and where i would go with it.

    but he also explained to me, and i will never forget it, that we have to be careful of minutia. he once said, "you just took a 1/4 page to describe something that take only four words... she brushes her teeth." i laughed for like ten minutes. but it tought me a valuable lesson.

    the other thing we must be careful of, is not listening with our head, and taking something that is meant to help as a personal affront. arrogance, pride, and prejudice should be left aside.

    notes are offered to help someone improve. no one wants to see you write a piece of $hit. no one wants to watch as you sink your own ship because YOU feel you're better than the person giving you the note... newsflash, you're not.

    be gracious.

    it takes a lot of time to give notes. you don't have to agree with them. you don't have to use them. you don't have to explain them. and most importantly you do not have to defend them... it's a bad look all around.

    i'm in a writer's group and we give notes on pages. it takes a lot of time and consideration. we always thank each other and there is always something we learn about our own writing whether it's clarity, story, character, setting...

    people on this board are generous. be grateful, because you may learn something from them. i know, because i do every day.

    and if you act like your **** don't stink, guess what, no one is going to offer up their valuable time to give you notes.

    and, btw, you should never insult anyone who gives their time freely to you regardless of what you think about the notes.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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    • #3
      Re: How to respond to notes

      Scriptnotes podcast today was John and Craig talking directly to the people that gives working screenwriters notes and it was very good.

      https://johnaugust.com/2019/notes-on-notes

      That's more advance than what I was talking about.

      Good stuff FA4. It really is important. It's what will help people stay around long enough to succeed.. because all writers are kicked in the face with feedback.

      If you don't want feedback and want to full (almost) control -- aim for plays or novels. But TV and Film --- brutal.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How to respond to notes

        I see a lot of people that fight back when people give notes and they will write back "I said the character age" -- well the reader missed it. And that will happen if you put it in the wrong spot or make character names so similar we can't tell who is who easily. John and Jack. Molly and Mindy. So many newbie scripts love to do that stuff, I did it too.

        Anyway -- just keep in mind no one knows your script as well as you do. Ever.

        So when you ask a stranger to read it or even worse it gets into Hollywood hands -- keep in mind they are probably reading 20 scripts a week, mostly on wkd, all piled up... so it all really blends in... non stop reading.

        Pro writers give you as much white space as possible, make things as clear as possible. That's one of those skills you learn as go.

        Just saying, I see people on threads and just things I noticed over the years of giving/getting notes -- if you think it's clear or well written -- but feedback is telling you it's not clear, you got to consider you're wrong.

        If you keep saying I NEED THIS CHARACTER/ SCENE / PLOT POINT, well many great movies had huge big changes that helped the movie.

        The story is always being rewritten, script, shooting, editing... all 3 stages are writing the story. it's going to change. A lot.

        So don't be precious. Be gracious for the help.

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        • #5
          Re: How to respond to notes

          Originally posted by Bono View Post
          Scriptnotes podcast today was John and Craig talking directly to the people that gives working screenwriters notes and it was very good.

          https://johnaugust.com/2019/notes-on-notes


          If you don't want feedback and want to full (almost) control -- aim for plays or novels. But TV and Film --- brutal.
          This is the Reddit thread where someone wrote it out -- for those that hate listening to podcast people chatter on about nothing (that would be me) here they are written out.

          https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriti...gj&sh=8bf6eb53

          An aside to Bono -- It's not at all true that if you want full control, write novels -- you still answer to your agent and do their notes, and then your editor's notes (multiple passes) and then a copyeditor's notes. Unless you self-publish. If you self-publish, you will most likely pay someone out of your own pocket -- a freelance editor -- to give you edit notes. And more money will go out to a copyeditor. Then, in the glut of self-publishing, no one will read you anyway. Cheers!!
          Last edited by figment; 05-11-2019, 08:10 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How to respond to notes

            Originally posted by figment View Post
            This is the Reddit thread where someone wrote it out -- for those that hate listening to podcast people chatter on about nothing (that would be me) here they are written out.

            https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriti...gj&sh=8bf6eb53

            An aside to Bono -- It's not at all true that if you want full control, write novels -- you still answer to your agent and do their notes, and then your editor's notes (multiple passes) and then a copyeditor's notes. Unless you self-publish. If you self-publish, you will most likely pay someone out of your own pocket -- a freelance editor -- to give you edit notes. And more money will go out to a copyeditor. Then, in the glut of self-publishing, no one will read you anyway. Cheers!!
            Yes, you will get notes from your book people, but you still have so much more control than in film land. Not even close. My friend is a literary agent and she tries to help her clients make the best book, but it sounds like it's up to them. Now I'm not an expert by any means -- this is just what I've heard. You're in a lot more control as a book author... i mean a screenwriter has almost zero control.

            I'll say MORE CONTROL and maybe even some RESPECT in book land? Fair?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How to respond to notes

              I just watched a YouTube documentary:

              Jack Kirby Story Teller (Jack Kirby art) Full documentary (the guy behind the Marvel art)

              And in it they talk about how artists of the day (40s to 70s) were treated like cattle, paid accordingly, the publisher took their original art (copyright), etc. etc. Apparently that all began to change in the late 70s, and since then has been a golden age for comic book artists.

              The old days for them sure sounds a lot like screenwriting, in our past and present!

              As I'm always saying, you gotta do it yourself (be a publisher/producer) if you want to get ahead. However, it does mean taking a risk, and forgetting about that hourly wage thingee.

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              • #8
                Re: How to respond to notes

                Catcon -- what is your Image you're using-- it always unsettles me and I don't know why.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How to respond to notes

                  Sorry -- OT.

                  Originally posted by Bono View Post
                  I'll say MORE CONTROL and maybe even some RESPECT in book land? Fair?
                  Your lit agent friend is speaking from her point of view, much like a studio exec would see things differently than a writer. I have a list of horror stories but I don't want to take over the thread.

                  I will say that -- People define respect differently. Most advances for 95 percent of book authors are ten grand and under, for what is well over a year's worth of work. And most books receive little to no publisher-backed promotion, thereby making it almost impossible to gain another book deal, since you then have no readership. Is that respect?

                  You have respect if you're Rowling or Grisham. But what about the rest of those book authors in the bookstore?

                  To me, it's different in film. You can be a no-name screenwriter, can have bomb after bomb and still manage to make millions of dollars a year (respect) and get a steady stream of assignment work (respect) or rewrite others. Not saying anyone should aim for being that writer -- but that guy can pay his bills and also have health insurance (respect).
                  Last edited by figment; 05-12-2019, 04:41 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: How to respond to notes

                    Now we are getting off track. I was just trying to focus on script notes and how to take them.

                    I admit I don't know sh%t about novel world.

                    But you saying there's more money in screenwriting is laughable too. Don't you know the majority of members of the WGA made zero dollars every year? Like it's 20,000 members and less than half even got paid, but that's where the money is at?

                    There are like 25 screenwriters who get close to that type of money. The rest are treated like ****. IN fact, those 25 million writers are also treated like crap too.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How to respond to notes

                      Originally posted by Bono View Post
                      Look up the Game of Thrones story about how the first pilot they shot was terrible and their good writer friend, like Craig Mazin of scriptnotes fame and done deal fame, had to tell them "it's terrible, do it all better." And they reshoot 90% of it..
                      Mazin worked on Game of Thrones?
                      Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How to respond to notes

                        He was one of the first people to see the original pilot and give them notes that saved the show. Or at least one big note, "change everything" and they listened. they took the notes well. Most don't.

                        https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...inal-pilot-bad

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How to respond to notes

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          He was one of the first people to see the original pilot and give them notes that saved the show. Or at least one big note, "change everything" and they listened. they took the notes well. Most don't.

                          https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...inal-pilot-bad
                          some notes are good

                          when I googled it, all I found was tweets by Mazin saying how to change the last season/ending of GoT

                          Wonder what Frank Darabont thinks about the Walking Dead last few seasons?

                          I wonder what changes he wanted to make with season 2
                          Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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