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Old 08-21-2019, 05:53 PM   #151
nmstevens
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Default Re: How important is voice in screenwriting?

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Originally Posted by Julysses View Post
there's successful script where the I.I. happens off screen?
Maybe somebody would put up an argument, but I'd say -- Zulu.

The massacre at Islandwana, I would think, qualifies as the inciting incident and it certainly happens immediately before the beginning of the movie.

It triggers all of the events that follow during the main action of the movie.

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Old 08-30-2019, 09:37 AM   #152
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Default Re: How important is voice in screenwriting?

there’s a show called LOST. the inciting incident is the plane crash and happens before we fade in.
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Old 08-31-2019, 03:42 PM   #153
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Default Re: How important is voice in screenwriting?

Imho, I believe voice is what separates writers. All good scripts stick to the essentials of storytelling and structure, but voice in the description, to me, is the number 1 factor of what creates a great script. You hear a lot of people, both professionals, consultants, and amateurs, say you don't have to describe every detail. But depending on the tone of the movie, if you're trying to pull us into a world of which we are unfamiliar, or get us to feel something we've never felt, you need to be economically descriptive with the prose. Details are important to settings, they are important to characters, and those details will engage us into this world that you've created. So when I hear writers say "don't use more than 3 lines of text in description," it is hard for me to take their work seriously, because how many lines you use should be dictated by what's happening. You might use a phrase. You might need a thick block of text to elicit that emotion. As long as it's something we can see on screen, it's fair game. Craig Zahler is an absolute master of this. He wrote the brigands of rattleborge before anyone knew who he was, and look how dense that prose is. It's absolutely beautiful. It landed him on the Blacklist and his work was bought immediately after.

I'm sure if some gurus read that script when it dropped, they'd take their red pen and cross out half of it.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:27 PM   #154
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Default Re: How important is voice in screenwriting?

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Imho, I believe voice is what separates writers.

All good scripts stick to the essentials of storytelling and structure, but voice in the description, to me, is the number 1 factor of what creates a great script.

You hear a lot of people, both professionals, consultants, and amateurs, say you don't have to describe every detail. But depending on the tone of the movie, if you're trying to pull us into a world of which we are unfamiliar, or get us to feel something we've never felt, you need to be economically descriptive with the prose.

Details are important to settings, they are important to characters, and those details will engage us into this world that you've created. So when I hear writers say "don't use more than 3 lines of text in description," it is hard for me to take their work seriously, because how many lines you use should be dictated by what's happening.

You might use a phrase. You might need a thick block of text to elicit that emotion. As long as it's something we can see on screen, it's fair game.

Craig Zahler is an absolute master of this. He wrote the brigands of rattleborge before anyone knew who he was, and look how dense that prose is. It's absolutely beautiful. It landed him on the Blacklist and his work was bought immediately after.

I'm sure if some gurus read that script when it dropped, they'd take their red pen and cross out half of it.
hmm...

disregarding a writer and stating that you, "can't take them serious," because they suggest to break up lines of action to 3 lines is a bit rigid, imo. it's unfair in the same way you suggest that it's unfair for someone to criticize Craig Zahler for his dense text.

you can use the exact same number of lines in a single 9 line paragraph and break them without disrupting the pace or rhythm of the writing. and in breaking it up, you can increase the reader's comprehension, and highlight important information that might be otherwise skimmed, due to it's density.

suggesting that a writer edit a six line paragraph by eliminating the fat is not the same as suggesting a writer break a paragraph up so that the reader ingests every line and does not begin to "skim" the writing.

skimming is a natural inclination. and one way to combat that is the break the paragraphs into smaller paragraphs.it's not rocket science and it's not suggesting "redlining" anything out.

James Cameron writes very dense, very specific action because he's directing it. it's for him, it is not for the reader.but that doesn't mean it's EASY to read. it takes more concentration and effort. absolutely. facts.

not everyone has the time or energy to concentrate on dense action, and i don't believe there's anything wrong with suggesting that you break things down to more digestible segments.

i broke up your very dense paragraph into smaller segments as an example of this. for me, it's easier to understand the importance of your statements, all of which are received as equal measurements in a single paragraph, which they are not all equal.

perhaps you wrote in a single block as an example.

some have greater weight. what you're communicating is important. breaking it up actually emphasizes certain points. not everything is a flaline, writing moves, like emotions or waves. they have peaks and valleys. they rise and fall.

i agree with you, details are very important. they can be concise, economic and evocative.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:59 PM   #155
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Default Re: How important is voice in screenwriting?

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hmm...

disregarding a writer and stating that you, "can't take them serious," because they suggest to break up lines of action to 3 lines is a bit rigid, imo. it's unfair in the same way you suggest that it's unfair for someone to criticize Craig Zahler for his dense text.

you can use the exact same number of lines in a single 9 line paragraph and break them without disrupting the pace or rhythm of the writing. and in breaking it up, you can increase the reader's comprehension, and highlight important information that might be otherwise skimmed, due to it's density.

suggesting that a writer edit a six line paragraph by eliminating the fat is not the same as suggesting a writer break a paragraph up so that the reader ingests every line and does not begin to "skim" the writing.

skimming is a natural inclination. and one way to combat that is the break the paragraphs into smaller paragraphs.it's not rocket science and it's not suggesting "redlining" anything out.

James Cameron writes very dense, very specific action because he's directing it. it's for him, it is not for the reader.but that doesn't mean it's EASY to read. it takes more concentration and effort. absolutely. facts.

not everyone has the time or energy to concentrate on dense action, and i don't believe there's anything wrong with suggesting that you break things down to more digestible segments.

i broke up your very dense paragraph into smaller segments as an example of this. for me, it's easier to understand the importance of your statements, all of which are received as equal measurements in a single paragraph, which they are not all equal.

perhaps you wrote in a single block as an example.

some have greater weight. what you're communicating is important. breaking it up actually emphasizes certain points. not everything is a flaline, writing moves, like emotions or waves. they have peaks and valleys. they rise and fall.

i agree with you, details are very important. they can be concise, economic and evocative.
I agree with this. I didn't mean disregard writers who suggest breaking up text. I am all for feedback, and believe the work suffers without it. I meant the people who are rigid in their belief that "no description can exceed 3-4 lines." Or people rigid in "the rules" as a whole. Because imho, I find that a number of styles can work on the page. Thanks for the input.
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