Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by Jules View Post
    Maybe the rater unsubscribed? Did you feel the rating was fair?
    The rating was good. But that doesn't matter so much as why a rating is there and then not there, especially when the service is weighted heavily toward having to get ratings in order to get exposure.

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    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      It wouldn't surprise me if some people were just rating on the loglines, it seems like it might have a similar result in the way it recommends scripts to them, then again I still don't understand it. The rating might well come back, it could of happened to everyone maybe.
      It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the thrill of the fight

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      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Travis -- to each their own. You basically echoed the way I feel, that you're better off being "reckless," especially if you've yet to break in.

        Just curious -- this isn't meant to be a point of debate -- did your friend who worked for the cartoon sign any type of contract at the beginning of his employment that made any submitted works the automatic property of the company? I don't know much about the TV world, so my information may be misguided, but my understanding is that contracts like that do exist.
        QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Originally posted by Knaight View Post
          Just curious -- this isn't meant to be a point of debate -- did your friend who worked for the cartoon sign any type of contract at the beginning of his employment that made any submitted works the automatic property of the company? I don't know much about the TV world, so my information may be misguided, but my understanding is that contracts like that do exist.
          Good question.

          I could ask, but he never broke in as a writer, so I kind of hate to bring it up.

          EDIT: IMDB'd him and found what I believe he had said the show was (it's been a few years since we had this conversation). It was a pretty popular show on The Cartoon Network.

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          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by -XL- View Post
            2) Starting the monthly upload subscription fee before the material has been reviewed is a HUGE oversight. It's too early to tell, beyond best guesses, how long this turnaround time will generally be, but that's wasted money on the writer's part and might well dampen the fanfare a good script would recieve (e.g. were it posted on the "New Uploads" frontpage with its high rating already there). It's a simple fix: two options (upload with no review $25pm; review with optional upload $50) giving the writer more freedom (and more information) to decide on whether to upload, and (almost certainly) strengthening the database (by discouraging material that isn't ready). That said, obviously, the subscription is where most of the profit is, so it would mean less revenue. It all depends where the priorities truly lie.
            In regards to your second point, I suggested all of this to Franklin on that other thread, and am hoping he takes it to heart, and ponders the possibility of changing it. That was one of the issues holding me back.

            Also, I don't mind professional writers looking at the loglines, or reading the scripts, or even rating them. But just any repped writer, who is just a step ahead, being able to read scripts, or all unrepped writers being able to read all of the loglines and whatever, I don't get, and would prefer it didn't work that way. That's another issue holding me back. It just seems like there isn't any good reason for it, and there are some cons. Completely aside from the worry about someone stealing, which is debatable, it's going to skew all of your stats if it includes any writers who just keep viewing loglines out of curiosity. It also means, in theory, a just repped writer, who can't help you at this point anyway, could read your script and give you a bad review. It's one thing if you pay for a review, or someone you would hope to read your script, rates it badly, oh well, that's what you asked for.

            Also, I understand not being able to know who read your script, if it was only reps, prods, and pro writers. They don't want every writer on there, who has a script they read, contacting and pestering them about it, which you know would happen, and which defeats the purpose for them. But again, if that is the case, all the more reason to be more stringent about who gets to check out what. If they get to have a sense of privacy, the writers should have a certain level of privacy as well. I thought the idea was for it to benefit both parties.

            I would do this in a heartbeat, if not for those two issues. Depending on how it all shakes out, and what the brave souls who jumped aboard already report back about the experience, I may end up doing it at some point.
            "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
              Yesterday my script had 4 downloads and 1 rating. Today it has 4 downloads and 0 ratings. ???? WTF?
              Same thing happened to me, Wickedlies. Maybe there was a rouge reviewer, and then they deleted his/her reviews. (such a writer I am, looking for a story to tell, even when there probably isn't one).

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              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by Knaight View Post
                My first option came as a result of someone getting a copy of my script without my knowledge. You should consider being less precious with your material, as lots of people catch breaks in the same manner.
                But what if your precious script landed in Carson Eads' lap? And he publicly reviewed it on "Done Deal Pro Forum Member Saturday?" Here's a snippet of the review:

                "I picked Knaight's script for today's review because DD Pro Forums recently tore me a new one -- VENGEANCE IS MINE.

                Suffice it to say, after reading Knaight's script, the word "Crap" will need to be redefined by the kind folks over at Oxford University Press, for associating Knaight's script with such a word is tantamount to literary cruelty."
                I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                  But what if your precious script landed in Carson Eads' lap? And he publicly reviewed it on "Done Deal Pro Forum Member Saturday?" Here's a snippet of the review:

                  "I picked Knaight's script for today's review because DD Pro Forums recently tore me a new one -- VENGEANCE IS MINE.

                  Suffice it to say, after reading Knaight's script, the word "Crap" will need to be redefined by the kind folks over at Oxford University Press, for associating Knaight's script with such a word is tantamount to literary cruelty."
                  Carson Eads would look vindictive and he'd be a fool to direct his readers to one of the many threads that point out his inadequacies and incompetency.
                  Ring-a-ding-ding, baby.

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                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Carson can easily get his hands on my script at this point, anyway. The point is moot.

                    I don't want my script on his site, but it's out of my control.
                    QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      I love the Black List, and after seeing Franklin Leonard at a panel here in Austin yesterday, I was really impressed. As the moderator of a "Writing a Script That Will Stick" panel I thought he did an almost perfect job of being knowledgeable, inquisitive, witty, everything.

                      But I just don't like the sound of this new venture. Part of that is based on something I feel like I've learned over the last few years, and that is that access is overrated. If someone truly is a great screenwriter, they just need to have one single solitary connection to someone who has an industry connection, and the ball can get rolling. But even if they don't, and I know that's not uncommon, they can enter one of the four or five truly reputable screenwriting competitions. Even accounting for the subjectivity involved, if someone is truly great they will do really well in at least one of them, and that will get them consideration, reads, and/or meetings. But again, that's assuming all the actual TALENT is there...

                      The people who complain that the real problem is access will spend a lot of money on this site hoping their dreams are gonna come true -- and maybe once in a blue moon some will -- but for the most part it will be wasted money. And its founders must know that. Asking people to spend $25 a month to have a script parked in an archive is insane... That's $300 a year. How much does it cost to log and store one script? $4 worth of man/woman power at first, and then virtually nothing (sometimes for months/years?) after that? How is Scriptshadow's reading/notes service unethical for taking advantage of people's naivete (which I believe it is), but this isn't?

                      It seems like Franklin Leonard has earned an enormous amount of goodwill, and because of that people don't seem to be calling this for what it is: Primarily a money-making operation, with a desire to help writers break -- as compared to taking money from the 90% of submitters who never could -- way, way, way down on the list of priorities.

                      Or am I missing something?
                      Last edited by marcal; 10-20-2012, 06:57 PM. Reason: typo

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                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        Originally posted by iknownuffin View Post
                        Hi Franklin,

                        So far I like what I'm reading here but...

                        Let's say I write a raunchy comedy script. A Blacklist reader
                        gives it a very high mark. At this point does Blacklist go
                        proactive and send out email alerts to industry professionals who
                        have professed an interest in raunchy comedies, or does Blacklist
                        wait for the industry professionals to log in to the site and search around?
                        First option. We send email alerts to industry professionals who have expressed an interest in raunchy comedies and those who might like it anyway despite not having expressed that explicit interest. If the script is particularly highly rated by our readers (or also gets ratings from industry professionals that are similarly high), it may also be included in a top list of hosted scripts on the site, segments of which are occasionally emailed to our industry professional members based on their expressed preferences.

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                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by Storytell View Post
                          Hi Franklin.

                          Adding to the list of questions - when a 'memeber' orders an evaluation for $50 what exactly does the member get in return? Can't find anything on your site that explains that. Is it just one score, period. Is it a scorecard? Is is it comments from the evaluator also?

                          And does the paid evaluator's score carry more weight that other 'members' who download the script (assume it can be other writers not necessarily pros) and can give a score with no explanation?

                          Thanks for clarifying.
                          I suppose a scorecard is a good description of what a writer receives. The evaluation includes a 1-10 overall rating with 1-10 ratings in categories like dialogue, structure, setting, premise and answers to questions about the screenplay's greatest strengths, weaknesses, and commercial prospects.

                          Currently, the paid evaluator's score is considered equal to that of our industry professional members within our algorithm. That could change as we continue to optimize our algorithm. Fellow writers cannot rate each other's screenplays.

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                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                            I suppose a scorecard is a good description of what a writer receives. The evaluation includes a 1-10 overall rating with 1-10 ratings in categories like dialogue, structure, setting, premise and answers to questions about the screenplay's greatest strengths, weaknesses, and commercial prospects.

                            Currently, the paid evaluator's score is considered equal to that of our industry professional members within our algorithm. That could change as we continue to optimize our algorithm. Fellow writers cannot rate each other's screenplays.
                            Hi Franklin, do you mind if I ask:

                            What's the purpose of giving professional writers access to the site at all?
                            I'm sure you must have one, but I'm missing something here...

                            Btw, my favorite Staffing CEO in LA, Carrie Policella, used to place people at your last place of employment (only good people, I hope)

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                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Originally posted by Jules View Post
                              Does the writer have an option to make reader coverage visible on the script, but not the average rating of people who downloaded and/or rated it. Or do they go hand in hand?

                              How soon is a script affected by its rating, after the first one? Or does it wait until a few have been collected? I imagine a writer's script could end up falling off the face of the earth if its first rating was negative.

                              Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions
                              Writers have the ability to hide individual evaluations and their overall average rating separately.

                              A script is affected by its rating after the first read, whether that reader comes from industry professionals or by our professional readers. See my comments re: the Black List sending emails based on those first reads. Certainly the more ratings, the better (whether from our readers or other industry pros), but only if those evaluations are high as well.

                              And yes, it is possible for a script to fall off the face of the metaphorical Earth in the event of a low first rating. You'll be able to monitor traffic to your script on the My Scripts page and make the decision based on that traffic and your belief in your script whether to remove your script from the database, pay for another of our readers, or take other action.

                              I spoke with one writer today who was very aware that her script was polarizing. In such a case, an additional read might be valuable. I should note that our readers have been encouraged to look for great writing, not necessarily the most commercial script, so smaller scripts with great writing shouldn't be stigmatized as they might be elsewhere.

                              Scripts that get consistently bad ratings should probably be taken down, and we encourage you to do so if you find yourself in that situation. Though I understand why the assumption might be that we would like writers to keep them up as long as possible regardless of their numbers, we wouldn't. Sincerely. Consistent very low ratings are likely to mean that your script is not likely to attract interest amongst our members. If you believe in it, that doesn't necessarily mean you should give up your dream, but it does mean that for that script, we're not likely to be able to help you.

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                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Originally posted by Jules View Post
                                What confuses me is the rating system, from what I understand, people are recommended scripts based on how they've rated scripts in the past, and are sent ones like the ones they liked, and not sent ones like the ones they didn't like.

                                So the paid readers must be ticking content boxes of things about the scripts like writers do on inktip to create this complex system.

                                I would love the curtain to be pulled back a little so writers can see how this is done, it would be interesting, and possibly helpful to them.

                                I worry that this system is designed in a way that a industry professional would be rating scripts down or up based on how they meet their tastes rather than for the quality of the script. Note the subtle distinction.

                                Then again, I could just be very confused, which I think may be the case.
                                Our algorithm looks less as the content of the scripts than it does at relationships between the taste of our users based on how they've rated other scripts.

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