Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    How many of you have children, raise your hand?


    How many of you have ugly children, keep you hands raised?


    Kind of the same concept with screenplays.


    My eyes do not deceive, there's a lot of ugly children running around out there, but you can't help but love your own babies.

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    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Originally posted by JaGra View Post
      My eyes do not deceive, there's a lot of ugly children running around out there, but you can't help but love your own babies.
      But we're talking about scripts that have won or placed highly in other contests and gotten a "one" here. That's not a simple matter of taste, that's more like a reader has gone off the reservation. Oh, and you paid them fifty bucks to do it.

      Thanks to Franklin for continuing to address concerns. I do like the idea of super high standards, otherwise the ratings won't mean anything. On the other hand, I toyed with the idea of entering my recent Nicholl QF script and after reading these comments decided I don't know if I can handle an anonymous person smacking it with a "one" right this moment.

      Thanks to those of you who shared their experiences. I hope it gets sorted out. The thing that is great about this venture, I think, is that Franklin seems committed to making it work and making it fair. Kudos.

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      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Originally posted by falcon18 View Post
        For the script that scored a 1 on plot and for these other scripts that got super low scores -- are you upset because you got low scores or is it because you believe that the service is a scam?
        I can only speak for myself, but it was the actual notes that had me scratching my head. If they were in the same ballpark of previous notes I had received that would be one thing, but we're talking different solar system here.

        I also have a very hard time stomaching that a vetted BL reader is any more qualified then a reader deciding the winner of a respected contest. I would love to see some facts to back this up.

        But hey, despite my experience, I'm glad this service is available. It's another option for aspiring screenwriters and I think, like anything else, there are improvements to be made which I'm sure will occur over time.

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        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          So Franklin contacted me and I emailed him my concerns. I hope I'm being helpful rather than just griping, because I really do want it to work.

          Anyway, one of my problems was scripts are being completely buried, with no way for members to discover them, but I realized I could at least do something about it and share it myself. (At least, I think I can...)

          Here goes - if anyone who is a pro member wants to check it out, my script is here: https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4130

          Sci-fi thriller with a new take on time-travel. Thanks!

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          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            IMHO well placed contest scripts that are of a pro level are few and far between. That's not to say there aren't some terrific scripts out there that come from the contest circuit but I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea that because a script placed in a top tier screenwriting competition that it's of a quality that warrants higher marks from a black list reader.

            FYI My first script won/placed in major screenwriting contests such as PAGE/ TRACKINGB etc.

            Said script is currently out to directors with a major prod co on board and how did our developing process start? A page 1 rewrite...

            I look back at that material and it pales in comparison to my latest scripts. Pales.

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by goldmund View Post
              Thank you, Franklin, for your clarifications.

              1) I'd like to ask what are the consequences of hiding your average rating/reader's review. Is your rating still in the system and your script still promoted accordingly?

              2) Shouldn't there be some ways to tag scripts so that searching becomes more feasible? Things like: budget, locations, cast, or even some word tags like: murder, incest, blasphemy, ponies? ;-) It's hard to write a logline that is both attractive (thus, lean!) and including all search criteria.
              1) Hiding your average rating has no direct consequences on how your script is treated in our database. Yes, that number still exists, but no one but you has access to it.

              Our system is highly dynamic, and as such, scripts are promoted in a number of different ways for a number of different reasons. For example, a script may be promoted because it gets consistently high ratings from our paid readers and industry professionals. Another script which is a bit more polarizing may get promoted because a single paid reader rated it a 8,9,or 10 even though its average score is far, far beneath that.

              2) Tagging is something we're exploring, but obviously it is not an available feature quite yet.

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              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                That's cool. Time will tell.

                This, I don't understand:




                Overall ratings include both the paid evaluation and evaluations from those members who happen to read it. As a result, your rating can change over time? Then why offer the $50 evaluation at all?
                Yes, your rating can and will change over time.

                Our readers act as a first read, as they would at any company. Their evaluation can catalyze other reads from industry professionals - reads that are free - who are then free to rate your script both so that we can represent the collective assessment of your script more accurately and provide better recommendations to our members based on their taste.

                In many ways, it is an algorithmic representation of the way material is reviewed and assessed on a daily basis in Hollywood.

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Geez. Now I'm really nervous. The script I sent to BL is one that was given some really high praise by a respected DD member, but not one in a genre or with a logline that will spin heads (thus my only getting two reads in the 200 queries I sent I'm guessing).

                  Now my second script. Still working on that one. Sadly, I think I suffered a sophomore jinx. Because of the praise I got from the first, I figured my second was gold. Um.... no.

                  Ran out of the gate way too early without vetting the harshest critic of all. Myself. Believed my own hype, even if it was just the voices in my head. Got some responses with that logline. Too bad the script was bad. Not terrible, but not any good. Stock characters with too many forced plot points and not enough natural conflict. When I read it again, I felt like I was reading a bad comic book. Took some time to reevaluate what the hell I was trying to do with all this. Decided it's not a race and if I'm going to do this at all, I better dang well do it right.

                  I'm super confident in most (if not all) of the stories I have to tell, but the execution of those stories is paramount... and freakin' hard to do right. But everyday I'm learning something new about the process and about myself. I suppose that's all I can expect. I won't let BL destroy that or some contest or even a pass. I'll take that as my invitation to try harder. Do better.

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                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Perhaps a dose a ACCOUNTABILITY might cure the perceived problem with ratings.

                    Reputable services like Screenplay Mechanic, place their name and reputation behind their script evaluations.

                    Is there any way to make reviewers on BL attach their name to the scores they give? Quality of work is always better when someone must be accountable for the work performed.

                    **added**
                    When paying someone to review your script, aren't you automatically paying for the right to know who the reviewer is? Otherwise, there is no way to tell whether the opinion you are paying for has any value. With a pay service like this I think it should be required that a writer know who's opinion they are paying for. Otherwise, there is no accountability and nothing to stop the pay service from devolving into a scam or attract scam-ish behavior.

                    Nothing against the BL. But this might be an area of improvement Fanklin can think about.
                    Last edited by mgwriter; 10-25-2012, 05:37 PM. Reason: added thought

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                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      I'd be interested in knowing how many high level producers, DODs and CEs, who are already overwhelmed by scripts coming in from top reps, are PAYING to subscribe to a service and then actually taking time to give scripts a score. Honestly, this is the part that doesn't add up for me. These people already have too much stuff to read, and now they have to PAY to read more? And presumably, they will be dying to do so because one random anonymous reader paid by BL gave a script a decent score?

                      Maybe top Hollywood movers and shakers aren't as busy as we're led to believe they are.

                      As for the original BL, I see names like Sorkin and Tarantino and Gilroy and Loeb, and, and, all the usual suspects. But people make it sound like the BL is responsible for their success. Um, probably not! Plus, many of the projects on the list are studio generated and were already well on their way to production, so I fail to see what got everybody so excited. Specs by unknowns that garnered some buzz and deserve a second chance, okay, totally agree that that would be a really cool list. But holy crap, THE MUMMY 3 was on that list!!

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                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        I think it's partly an issue of structuring. Look, I'm by no means a fan of contests. I don't enter them, I didn't get repped through one. That said, a script which was a Finalist in PAGE, or won Austin, is immutably going to be better than hundreds of scripts uploaded to the BL by complete wannabes. We're talking scripts littered with typos, poor structure, bad dialogue, etc. Accordingly, it doesn't seem accurate to give these two scripts the same rating (a 1). When you give a script a 1, you're saying it is the bottom of the barrel...you can't go lower. But obviously you can go lower, because I guarantee there are far, far worse scripts being uploaded than an Austin winner. Those contest winners may not be an 8, but I have a hard time fathoming that they're on par with some of the junk out there either. Another issue is if you receive feedback which indicates that the reader skimmed the script or missed the boat entirely. It looks like Franklin is attempting to address this issue, which is a good thing.

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                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                          Yes, your rating can and will change over time.

                          Our readers act as a first read, as they would at any company. Their evaluation can catalyze other reads from industry professionals - reads that are free - who are then free to rate your script both so that we can represent the collective assessment of your script more accurately and provide better recommendations to our members based on their taste.

                          In many ways, it is an algorithmic representation of the way material is reviewed and assessed on a daily basis in Hollywood.
                          First -- I applaud you for answering all the questions posed. Now, here's why the changing rating bugs me.

                          Last week, you said you'll encourage writers who get low scores on the paid read to remove their script from the site.

                          And I thought that was admirable, actually. I thought that would dissuade those without the objectivity to rate their own work and keep the caliber of scripts higher.

                          Now that people are removing low-scored scripts and opting out (as you had originally advised them to do), you seem to be doing a 180 and saying (paraphrasing here) ...

                          "Well, hold on before you opt out. Your low score can change for the better. Stick around. Other members may give your script a higher score than your paid read. Or, perhaps you can pay for more reads to see if you do better."

                          To me, that sounds like the false hope thing rearing it's head.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                            I'd be interested in knowing how many high level producers, DODs and CEs, who are already overwhelmed by scripts coming in from top reps, are PAYING to subscribe to a service and then actually taking time to give scripts a score.
                            I don't believe industry professional members have to pay. I think Franklin has said there are currently 1100+ such members and I think he's also said anyone applying is pre-screened to ferret out lower-level individuals.

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                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              The biggest takeaway from this thread is that SC111 is a glass half-full type.
                              QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Of poison.








                                (Thanks to Woody Allen.)

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