Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by Knaight View Post
    The biggest takeaway from this thread is that SC111 is a glass half-full type.
    LOL~! Irony duly noted.

    Maybe it's the years in marketing that make me hyper-sensitive to this inherent promise stuff.... whatever.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

    Comment


    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
      I'd be interested in knowing how many high level producers, DODs and CEs, who are already overwhelmed by scripts coming in from top reps, are PAYING to subscribe to a service and then actually taking time to give scripts a score. Honestly, this is the part that doesn't add up for me. These people already have too much stuff to read, and now they have to PAY to read more? And presumably, they will be dying to do so because one random anonymous reader paid by BL gave a script a decent score?
      I don't believe they are paying for access. However, I might be wrong about this...
      "Write every day. Don't quit. The rest is all bullshit." - Brian Koppelman

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Originally posted by sc111 View Post
        First -- I applaud you for answering all the questions posed. Now, here's why the changing rating bugs me.

        Last week, you said you'll encourage writers who get low scores on the paid read to remove their script from the site.

        And I thought that was admirable, actually. I thought that would dissuade those without the objectivity to rate their own work and keep the caliber of scripts higher.

        Now that people are removing low-scored scripts and opting out (as you had originally advised them to do), you seem to be doing a 180 and saying (paraphrasing here) ...

        "Well, hold on before you opt out. Your low score can change for the better. Stick around. Other members may give your script a higher score than your paid read. Or, perhaps you can pay for more reads to see if you do better."

        To me, that sounds like the false hope thing rearing it's head.
        To be very, very clear, I am saying that if a script gets consistently low ratings from our readers, it is virtually impossible that one of our industry professional members will read the script. Their attention will never be drawn to it by our site (it won't be a top script nor will it get recommended to any of our members.)

        No reads from industry pro members means no additional ratings, which means that there's not much hope for consistently low rated scripts on our site, which is why we encourage people to take them down.

        High ratings from our readers will result in attention from industry professionals, who will download, read, and rate the script, resulting in changed ratings. Those ratings may be higher or lower than what our readers gave the script, such is the nature of a subjective business.

        I'll be straight with you: if you're getting consistently low reads from paid reads, you're probably going to get low ratings from industry professionals, even in the unlikely event that they stumbled upon it and read it. You shouldn't keep your script on our site.

        Comment


        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
          Perhaps a dose a ACCOUNTABILITY might cure the perceived problem with ratings.

          Reputable services like Screenplay Mechanic, place their name and reputation behind their script evaluations.

          Is there any way to make reviewers on BL attach their name to the scores they give? Quality of work is always better when someone must be accountable for the work performed.

          **added**
          When paying someone to review your script, aren't you automatically paying for the right to know who the reviewer is? Otherwise, there is no way to tell whether the opinion you are paying for has any value. With a pay service like this I think it should be required that a writer know who's opinion they are paying for. Otherwise, there is no accountability and nothing to stop the pay service from devolving into a scam or attract scam-ish behavior.

          Nothing against the BL. But this might be an area of improvement Fanklin can think about.
          Accountability is not an issue with which I'm concerned.

          Our readers are accountable to me, and I can assure you that they are being held to account.

          And I can say that because I am accountable to our customers and to the Hollywood community in general, a community to which I've dedicated the last decade of my life and plan on dedicating several more.

          Comment


          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by mge457 View Post
            I don't believe they are paying for access. However, I might be wrong about this...
            Our industry professional members do not pay for access, though they must be approved. We have approved fewer than 25% of applicants.

            We chose to not charge our industry professional members in order to knit together the largest number of eyeballs for the best scripts we find. It's part of why we're able to deliver over 1100 industry professionals who might read your script, if it's great.

            Comment


            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by michaelb View Post
              I was going to start another thread on this but figured might as well post it here.

              While I am not going to stay the rating system is perfect, I think more than anything, you are finding out that most of the scripts that the tens of thousands of aspiring writes out there send out thinking are ready for Hollywood are just not good.

              I will repeat that, are just not good.

              This service is comparing you to established pro writers. You are not in an amateur competition, winning the best of the rookies, but are going up against the pros.

              For most of you, this is shedding light on how far away you are from being ready for Hollywood and how your work stands up against the pros.

              Again, everything is subjective, but I think you'll find when compared to those playing in the big leagues, the numbers are probably somewhat in line. These, as Franklin said, are professional readers.

              BUT, all of that can change with your next script. Every pro writer has that moment when it all comes together and they write that script that is THE ONE. While many amateurs will never have that moment (just being realistic), all you can do is keep writing.

              Hope this sheds some realistic light on to all of the ratings. I'm one of a thousand executives on the site that looks over the amateur script ratings WANTING to find something. No other site can say that.

              Best,

              MB
              I just felt the need to have this posted again.

              Comment


              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                First -- I applaud you for answering all the questions posed. Now, here's why the changing rating bugs me.

                Last week, you said you'll encourage writers who get low scores on the paid read to remove their script from the site.

                And I thought that was admirable, actually. I thought that would dissuade those without the objectivity to rate their own work and keep the caliber of scripts higher.

                Now that people are removing low-scored scripts and opting out (as you had originally advised them to do), you seem to be doing a 180 and saying (paraphrasing here) ...

                "Well, hold on before you opt out. Your low score can change for the better. Stick around. Other members may give your script a higher score than your paid read. Or, perhaps you can pay for more reads to see if you do better."

                To me, that sounds like the false hope thing rearing it's head.
                I don't see Franklin doing a 180 here at all. It was fairly clear from the start that additional scores would naturally impact the average score. (Cuz of, you know... math.) At no point in clarifying that does he dangle the carrot of "Whoa! Where's everyone going?" or take on the persona of a used car salesman trying to sell you the undercoating.

                There's no conflict in saying "Hey, if you don't this this service is helping you, keep in mind you can leave at any time" and also saying, "It's not impossible that other reviews can help."

                Comment


                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
                  I don't see Franklin doing a 180 here at all. It was fairly clear from the start that additional scores would naturally impact the average score. (Cuz of, you know... math.) At no point in clarifying that does he dangle the carrot of "Whoa! Where's everyone going?" or take on the persona of a used car salesman trying to sell you the undercoating.

                  There's no conflict in saying "Hey, if you don't this this service is helping you, keep in mind you can leave at any time" and also saying, "It's not impossible that other reviews can help."
                  Yeah - I understand the math. Multiple reads x $50. Got it.
                  Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                    Yeah - I understand the math. Multiple reads x $50. Got it.
                    You seem surprisingly ignorant of the fact that it's not just the paid reads that can impact your score.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
                      You seem surprisingly ignorant of the fact that it's not just the paid reads that can impact your score.
                      I got that too.

                      Yes or no question: if someone receives a low overall score of 1 or 2 on their first paid read, do you recommend they pay for another read or two before giving up the ghost?
                      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        sc111,

                        It's pretty obvious you have no intention of doing BL 2.0. Why not let some other people who are interested in BL 2.0 ask some questions before you tire out FL?

                        I read one of the BL recommended scripts. And it was amazing. I will be upset if that writer doesn't land top representation very soon.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                          I got that too.

                          Yes or no question: if someone receives a low overall score of 1 or 2 on their first paid read, do you recommend they pay for another read or two before giving up the ghost?
                          Honestly, it depends on the concept, the subject matter, the specific areas in which the review found fault with the script. If your script is a character-driven incest drama in the 1800s, maybe you accept that your writing isn't strong enough to overcome the inherent marketability issues.

                          If you've got some high concept action film, maybe you ride it out to the end of the month and do your best to draw some other eyeballs to the script, see if you can raise the average by drawing the interest of people with an affinity for that specific genre.

                          I would advise against any immediate knee-jerk reaction. Wait a few days or even a week before rolling the dice on another review. Let the notes sink in. Take a deep breath or two - and reread your script. Be honest with yourself and see if there's any way you can improve this, particularly if some of those changes might address problem areas in the notes.

                          But if I got a 1, my first reaction wouldn't be to throw more money at it - it would start with taking a cold hard look at the material.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by Hamboogul View Post
                            sc111,

                            It's pretty obvious you have no intention of doing BL 2.0. Why not let some other people who are interested in BL 2.0 ask some questions before you tire out FL?

                            I read one of the BL recommended scripts. And it was amazing. I will be upset if that writer doesn't land top representation very soon.
                            I didn't realize I was tiring him out. Okay. No more questions from me.

                            Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
                            Honestly, it depends on the concept, the subject matter, the specific areas in which the review found fault with the script. If your script is a character-driven incest drama in the 1800s, maybe you accept that your writing isn't strong enough to overcome the inherent marketability issues.

                            If you've got some high concept action film, maybe you ride it out to the end of the month and do your best to draw some other eyeballs to the script, see if you can raise the average by drawing the interest of people with an affinity for that specific genre.

                            I would advise against any immediate knee-jerk reaction. Wait a few days or even a week before rolling the dice on another review. Let the notes sink in. Take a deep breath or two - and reread your script. Be honest with yourself and see if there's any way you can improve this, particularly if some of those changes might address problem areas in the notes.

                            But if I got a 1, my first reaction wouldn't be to throw more money at it - it would start with taking a cold hard look at the material.
                            Thanks.
                            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Originally posted by topshelf View Post
                              I can only speak for myself, but it was the actual notes that had me scratching my head. If they were in the same ballpark of previous notes I had received that would be one thing, but we're talking different solar system here.

                              I also have a very hard time stomaching that a vetted BL reader is any more qualified then a reader deciding the winner of a respected contest. I would love to see some facts to back this up.

                              But hey, despite my experience, I'm glad this service is available. It's another option for aspiring screenwriters and I think, like anything else, there are improvements to be made which I'm sure will occur over time.
                              Yup!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                I have to say, at least for me, I find this approach a refreshing option to all the 'Hollywood kills you with kindness-itis' that is out there. I got a fair amount of really positive feedback when I first started and had the great misfortune to believe it. I was not that good. I still may not be that good. But all I need is the truth.

                                Now, the truth is largely subjective when we talk about the quality of a script (true, some are objectively bad - and I've contributed my share of them). And for folks who have won a contest or placed really high, this is fantastic validation by some very credible folks who certainly told you 'their truth.'.

                                If someone disagrees with that assessment from the Black List then I'd suggest considering chalking it up to 'reasonable people can differ.' Franklin vets the readers; that's good enough for me. It doesn't mean we'll agree with them but a highly credible and respected person has at least made sure these people meet his standards. If the BL becomes less credible then he becomes less credible. That is so contrary to his self-interest that I cannot believe he is anything but hyper-vigilant in his attention to this detail. He already has a name and reputation to protect in this industry.

                                A great source of seeing how reasonable people can disagree about a movie is Rotten Tomatoes (or DD for that matter). I love reading reviews from some brilliant reviewers/posters and often their reviews/posts could not be more different. Who's wrong??

                                The only thing that matters to me is that if the news is bad, that it be presented professionally, backed up by a reasonable view of the material, and be constructive.

                                I have not submitted to the BL. I have no horse in this race. I have not submitted to many contests, but I did once and the same script did really well in one and was invisible in another. Who was wrong???

                                My goal at this point is to get better and better, and often I have found that the people who honestly give me constructive feedback that is not all sugary praise is how I learn best.

                                Good luck with the service, it's a great idea. And good luck with your writing, passion always make is better. The Black List is just one more voice in the wilderness. A very credible voice. But there are other credible voices, too. Don't get too high from the good and don't get too low from the bad. And feeling free to disagree with any of them can make us stronger - constructive disagreement is empowering. Especially when we realize nobody is right and nobody is wrong, and there's something to learn from every voice we hear.

                                And when all else fails, I try to remember 'thank you sir, may I have another' made Kevin Bacon a star.
                                Last edited by tucsonray; 10-26-2012, 07:02 AM.
                                Seven years dungeon --- no trials!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X