Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by michaelb View Post
    Very possible it was a query letter that was deleted and never read.

    But, there is a reason for that.

    The vast majority of writers are not good. Most are wasting their time and will never have the careers they dream of. Most lack the talent and creativity, and even then, some of the ones that have those lack the people skills.

    I believe the average writer, per the WGA, works in the business for 5 years or less. The vast majority will not have the careers of those pros like Mazin, Derek, and Lowell that so graciously spend their time helping out here.

    I do not say this to dishearten anyone on this board. I say this to put into perspective something. That vast majority all feel they will make it (and rightfully so, you never know until you try, and life is all about giving it your best show). But, all of those people send out query letters to people around town. And occasionally one has an interesting log line so we say what the hell and ask for the script, only to have it be painfully bad.

    And how you have a site, that can help us (those in the business), go find the ones that have been weeded out? Yes, please, and thank you for making it happen, Franklin.

    Also, to chime on what others have argued about. Great scripts will find their way. Derek Haas said something in Austin which I will probably be saying for years. Great scripts glow in the dark. They shine in a sea of bad writing and bad ideas. Very few will have those glowing scripts, but when they are read, they glow bright, and Hollywood can find them. It may not happen overnight, but they find their way. And again, Hollywood can't wait to find them.

    As many have said before on done deal, there is one way, and only one way you will ever know if you can make it..... keep writing. Write because you love it and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe you'll write a great script and have a career, or maybe you'll just have a hobby you love (and if you love it, it's not a waste of time), only time will tell.

    But all this nitpicking of the black list is pretty much at the point of being ridiculous (like so many threads on here get to be). Geoff has already found a script he likes. I'm sure many more stories will come of it. What further proof do you need? If you don't like your score, go rewrite your script. Or take it down. No one is making you sign up for the site. As for me, as of now, I think it's pretty cool.

    Best,

    MB
    So pearls will shine and rise out of the black recesses of the pool of mediocrity... just so long as they are validated by a site like Franklin's... because those very same scripts will not be read by you cold, is that what you're saying? The script you won't read as a query is the exact same script you will read if a mathematical equation tells you you should?

    Just trying to understand the process here. Because what Franklin is saying is that writers don't have access, thus the service. And what Lowell said is that writers do, through querying. But you're saying that the same query that will get ignored by reps, is the same one that will garner a read because of a site launched 2 weeks ago.

    Is that it?

    Comment


    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
      So pearls will shine and rise out of the black recesses of the pool of mediocrity... just so long as they are validated by a site like Franklin's... because those very same scripts will not be read by you cold, is that what you're saying? The script you won't read as a query is the exact same script you will read if a mathematical equation tells you you should?

      Just trying to understand the process here. Because what Franklin is saying is that writers don't have access, thus the service. And what Lowell said is that writers do, through querying. But you're saying that the same query that will get ignored by reps, is the same one that will garner a read because of a site launched 2 weeks ago.

      Is that it?
      No. Franklin's site gives those a chance to stand out. It gives the script that could have (notice I said could, not would) been overlooked a chance at being found that much sooner.

      But to summarize and answer.

      Great scripts are found.

      They can be found through Franklin's site.

      They can eventually find their way though querying.

      You have to remember, and I have said this on donedeal several times, the biggest hurdle writers have to overcome when they send out queries is all of the other BAD WRITERS out there sending out queries.

      Do you know the phrase, "one bad apple spoils the bunch"? Looks at querying in reverse. 99 bad apples spoil it for the one decent one.


      Best,

      Michael
      twitter.com/mbotti

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Thank you for explaining Franklin.

        Silly of me to expect there might be a higher level of accountability when PAYING MONEY to be reviewed. When people PAY you money, it's not the same as a cold query.

        When people pay Screenplay Mechanic, at least they KNOW who's reading their work.

        Of course you can keep reassuring people that based on your reputation for creating the BL, there's no possible way any of your (secret)readers could possibly do a poor job evaluating a script because of your reputation.

        When you ask people to pay for something (yes, even wanna be screenwriters who seem to fall for anything as they chase pipe dreams), once you ask them to pay, they have every right to ask what they're getting for their money. Or in this case, who the hell is reading my script?

        My question is, will it really hurt your business model to require PAID evaluators to attach their names and stand behind(be accountable) for their evaluation the way other PAID readers do, such as the Mechanic?

        How and why would this level of accountability not work for your PAID service?

        Excuse my ignorance for not automatically understanding why this wouldn't work for your service.

        By the way, I think the original BL is a wonderful thing you created, kudos to you sir.

        Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
        Accountability is not an issue with which I'm concerned.

        Our readers are accountable to me, and I can assure you that they are being held to account.

        And I can say that because I am accountable to our customers and to the Hollywood community in general, a community to which I've dedicated the last decade of my life and plan on dedicating several more.

        Comment


        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          A small tweak to the service that allows for the publication of what percentile a particular reader's rating falls into with regard to that reader's entire pool of reads may go a long way. What I am inartfully saying is to give two ratings so a script may get a 3 but that may be in the top 10% of all this reader's ratings.

          It may mean that a script has simply risen to the top 10% of mediocrity, or it may mean that this reader's standards are unrealistically high. It at least gives a potential second chance to get a read by a professional who may want to at least see the first 10 of a script that falls into someone's top 10%.
          Seven years dungeon --- no trials!

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          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Could someone please provide a short summary for those of us who don't want to wade through 40 pages?
            "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

            Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
              Because what Franklin is saying is that writers don't have access, thus the service. And what Lowell said is that writers do, through querying. But you're saying that the same query that will get ignored by reps, is the same one that will garner a read because of a site launched 2 weeks ago.
              There are so many ways in. There's querying. There are the handful of legit contests. And sometimes the pros are guilty of underplaying it to be kind... but if you're living in L.A., opportunities to get read are everywhere. You can't help but meeting people who can help you if they love your script.

              But even being outside of L.A., there are still plenty of avenues. I did experiments where I sent scripts under assumed names to two professional readers - both of them offered to send the scripts to producers and reps, even though that's not a service they offer as part of their fee.

              Or look at Joe N's fundraiser. Give 25 bucks to a worthy cause, get read by a legit rep.

              Or Michael B - he's been a champion reading queries.

              And look at you - you asked me to read something, and I agreed. If I would have loved it, I absolutely would have helped you. I've helped other people. Instead (I just went back and looked), here's the first sentence of your reply to my notes: "You may be right with some of your comments."

              Wheeee! Let me rush to help you, and offer to read your next project!

              In short, there are plenty of ways in. Instead of complaining that some people have the audacity to not read every query letter, why don't you try every avenue, write great scripts, and treat the contacts you make with respect.

              It's really all you can do, and I agree with Derek: great scripts glow in the dark. People are excited to find them and eager to share them.

              (And one note on querying: although I think querying works, I'm not saying every query gets read. When I was querying, I think I had around a 3% success rate. But I sent out thousands of queries, so got more than enough leads to find a way in.)
              Last edited by JeffLowell; 10-27-2012, 06:11 AM.

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              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                AND, to Geoff (and the question also applies to Michael B since you're also a rep):

                I don't think you fully answered SC's question, which was a great one: do reps respond to a query / logline alone, or do they require the validation of another party before requesting a script?

                It's a well known fact that many reps delete an e-query before even reading it, so an honest answer would be much appreciated here

                I mean let's face it, if you find a great script by an amazing, non-repped writer on BL, it was probably at some point a query that you deleted from your IN-BOX. No?

                I didn't get a chance to thank Geoff because the post is buried back a few pages so I'll use this opportunity. Thanks Geoff.

                Rantanplan -- I feel he answered the question 100% and I feel Michaelb gave excellent background to the question.

                Geoff is saying -- if the script he liked came via a cold query he "might" have requested a read "if" the writers had included the info about another script being with a producer.That's crystal clear. With a cold query, he would want his comfort level raised to a point where he could believe the script was executed adequately. The fact that these writers had something else that interested a producer raised his comfort level.

                Michaelb is explaining why that's the case. And I understand it, totally.

                It's not easy to even come close to a level where you satisfy all the mandatories required to write a solid, marketable script yet too many aspiring writers think it is. Perhaps the vast majority think it's easy. And that's what's plugging up the pipeline. That's what has burnt out the reps.

                The problem is -- some of us aren't hearing it. Don't want to hear it. Refuse to hear it. And will keep throwing money at contests, and what have you, convinced they can find a shortcut to beat the odds. As a result, the pipeline gets further clogged.

                (Objectivity about one's own work is crucial to a writer looking to earn a living from writing. Unfortunately, objectivity is often elusive.)
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Michaelb says, "If you don't like your score, go rewrite your script.-

                  -- This isn't a case about a writer being a crybaby about his score. It's about a BL score being so far off from what he received from pro reviewers, contests, industry people, that he felt it was important to bring attention to. Not to scream unfairness, but to help improve the BL if there are readers who have no sense on what's a 1, 2, 9, 10 etc.

                  I know reading material is subjective to each individual, but a 1 for a script that was highly regarded by more than one professional needed, in my opinion, to be looked at by Franklin to see if this reader's criteria/guideline for what rates a 1 is unrealistic.

                  From my understanding, Franklin just talked to the reader. I would have hoped that Franklin would not only have talked to the reader but read the script in question to get a true sense if his reader could match the appropriate score from Franklin's rating system.

                  I know people will say Franklin can't read every script in question. This is true, but for great discrepancies he could, now and then, sample the readers' reviews and scoring to ensure quality, credibility for his site.

                  If he hasn't already, I suggest part of the training for his readers is to present them with a guideline on his rating system of 1-10, such as what to expect to rate a script 1, 2, 3, 10, etc. This way there would be more of a chance to have consistencies with the ratings instead of being all over the place.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                    It's really all you can do, and I agree with Derek: great scripts glow in the dark. People are excited to find them and eager to share them.
                    That really sums it up but how many people can admit to themselves their scripts lack the fluorescence to glow?

                    I know the level I want to achieve and I know I am not there yet. Even when I was sending out scripts and getting good coverage, good feedback, one consider, I had this sinking feeling I was an imposter.

                    Then something Craig Mazin said here crystalized it for me with the phrase: adequate forgeries. I had to admit to myself that's what I was writing -- adequate forgeries. And maybe I could fool some of the people some of the time with my forgeries. But the sleight of hand would never work forever.

                    Actually, I think it's damn hard to even get to a level of writing to produce an adequate forgery. To get beyond that point is so much harder. To actually get to a point to earn a living at it, harder still.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      I'm not sure anyone can ever have that much self awareness. I was querying after my first script, because I thought it was ready. My 24th did the trick.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        People just like trolling.

                        Bottom line, there is a cheap way to get your sh!t read by real industry people--I bet most of the people griping will use the service. Repeatedly.

                        Seeing Rant's response to Jeff's notes illuminates Botti's point, even the miniscule number people who have talent are likely to have a terminal lack of people skills. (not saying Rant's script showed/didn't show talent, I didn't read it)

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          To echo Craig, I call them "faux screenplays". They're perfectly formatted. Not a typo to be found. Look, Ma, it's a script! But they have no voice, no style, no story.
                          http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                            Could someone please provide a short summary for those of us who don't want to wade through 40 pages?
                            1) Franklin has a new website that uses a private algorithm to match scripts to the over 1000 industry professionals who have joined.

                            2) Some writers are very enthusiastic about a new method to get their scripts in front of people who can help them.

                            3) Some writers are worried that it could be exploitative because there are monthly fees, and scripts that had previously been lauded elsewhere haven't been on the new site.

                            4) Professional writers and managers are taking a wait and see approach, though they seem optimistic.

                            5) Time and individual success stories will determine how helpful this is to all parties.

                            6) Isn't it about time you googled Assh**e Ninja?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              I've seen this pop up a few times and has been left unanswered, so i'd like to respond.

                              1. I'm not so sure having a name behind will help you out in any way. If they don't like it, they don't like it.
                              2. Screenplay mechanic is one guy, right? His name's going to be known, he wants it to be known.
                              3. Maybe there are, but I don't know of any competition coverage service that provides the info on who did the review. It's to protect the reviewer.
                              4. It's going to be reviewed by someone you probably don't know anyway and only opens up the door for harassment by writers who feel slighted. This also opens the door for reviewers to not be so harsh when they feel they should, for fear of said harassment, thus giving many an unworthy review.

                              I'm really not sure how knowing the name of the reviewer helps you? What are you going to do with a name?



                              Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                              Thank you for explaining Franklin.

                              Silly of me to expect there might be a higher level of accountability when PAYING MONEY to be reviewed. When people PAY you money, it's not the same as a cold query.

                              When people pay Screenplay Mechanic, at least they KNOW who's reading their work.

                              Of course you can keep reassuring people that based on your reputation for creating the BL, there's no possible way any of your (secret)readers could possibly do a poor job evaluating a script because of your reputation.

                              When you ask people to pay for something (yes, even wanna be screenwriters who seem to fall for anything as they chase pipe dreams), once you ask them to pay, they have every right to ask what they're getting for their money. Or in this case, who the hell is reading my script?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                I would've actually liked to have some kind of anonymous contact with the reviewer, but not to bicker about my score, but because I wanted further more detailed clarification on some of the weaknesses of my script, so I can make it better.

                                However, doing this opens up a door for a whole slew of other issues for 3.0 to deal with. And I think most people will probably just bicker about their score, plead for a higher one, and go on and on about defending their script and why the reviewer was dead wrong. I think the site would lose many of its best reviewers this way.

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