Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by Owen_Thinks View Post
    Thank you also for asking about the recently discovered writer -- it's good to know he/she was found on the basis of a paid read as the site intended (that also seems like a pretty good success rate given the site's age, hope it continues).

    It seems, to me at least, that it would be foolish to simply host the script. It's that much more work for people to find you that way (with little incentive to do so). Though who knows, if BL3.0 (or is it 2.0?) really heats up maybe interns/assistants will be tasked with sorting through every script in a certain genre/specification and selecting any that seem worthwhile.

    For now though, 1-3 paid reads seem like the way to go (if you are, as I am, thinking about taking the plunge).
    While I am hopeful that this will be resolved, the site offers little to no functionality when it comes to searching for scripts, leaving only the scripts BL3.0 promotes a chance at reads. I like everything I've heard from Franklin but I am uncertain what the logic is behind having an inventory of scripts that can't be searched and sorted.

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    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Question for Franklin: This is a very specific scenario I'm thinking about... So a writer finds out there are a couple scripts "listed" in the BL database that a previous rep may have shown to a few people at some point in the past. They're just listed -- no ratings but there is a logline on one.

      That particular project was maybe only shown to 5 or 6 people at the time it was first written. And now it's been substantially updated. But the writer either has new reps (who don't care about old material) or no reps at all... And he/she would like to put the script up on the site and pay for a read... What do you advise for "cleanest" way to do that in light of the same title already being listed in the database from the past?

      Thanks for all the time effort you've put into answering questions so far... and thanks in advance for continuing to do so.

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        It is a very interesting experiment and I am keen to see where it goes. At the moment, it feels similar to INKTIP but with an added ranking/review system and a bigger set of registered industry professionals.

        But then again, I recall INKTIP having a lot of pro traffic very early on; but many began to lose interest when it became too difficult to filter out the good scripts. Perhaps a ranking system is the way to go.

        IMO, I think perhaps BL's success may hinge on this ranking system. If it is robust enough to filter out the good writers -- writers that would have industry pros snapping up -- then it would become a "reliable source" to scout out talent.

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        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
          While I am hopeful that this will be resolved, the site offers little to no functionality when it comes to searching for scripts, leaving only the scripts BL3.0 promotes a chance at reads. I like everything I've heard from Franklin but I am uncertain what the logic is behind having an inventory of scripts that can't be searched and sorted.
          Can one at least search by genre, e.g., "Period Action-Adventure," or "Fantasy," or "Western"?

          Perhaps in the future, the Black List might allow the uploader to enter keywords for searching, in the YouTube manner.

          Comment


          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by karsten View Post
            Can one at least search by genre, e.g., "Period Action-Adventure," or "Fantasy," or "Western"?

            Perhaps in the future, the Black List might allow the uploader to enter keywords for searching, in the YouTube manner.
            The search function is almost useless. You can enter a genre but all of the other filters they have like "no manager" don't work. The idea that a potential reader could stumble upon anything through the search seems almost impossible. Maybe there are people on the industry side of the site who can offer up comment.

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by wickedlies View Post
              The search function is almost useless. You can enter a genre but all of the other filters they have like "no manager" don't work. The idea that a potential reader could stumble upon anything through the search seems almost impossible. Maybe there are people on the industry side of the site who can offer up comment.
              I've noticed this as well. the search is useless and only brings up old scripts that've been there a long time. I assume the way the industry side find things is better. Any pros on this site who can confirm or deny how the search function works on that end?

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              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Franklin did not respond to another question I had, is that clearly, a writer who pays only $25 to host the script is at a disadvantage versus the writer who has paid $50 plus for one or multiple reads. But yeah, the "recently discovered writer", he paid for coverage.
                http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                  And, by the way, I read a script yesterday that was suggested to me by the algorithm, and I liked the writing a lot. Already in touch with the writers. So, for me, it's already a success because I read something that showed real potential.
                  Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                  Pretty much sums it up right there. Good writing gets good reviews.
                  Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                  Actually, it means a script that Geoff likes got a good review. Or some number of good reviews. And it means the algorithm worked for Geoff.

                  Otherwise, by implication, you're saying that the only scripts you've ever rated as "good" were also judged as "good" by all other readers.

                  I'm not saying I'm for or against BL and its readers. I just think "Good writing gets good reviews" is a silly thing to say. Some bad writing gets good reviews and vice-versa. And Michael, I'd be surprised if you haven't seen that happen.
                  Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                  This is one of those reading too much into what I say situations.

                  There is ALWAYS an exception to the rule.

                  But in that case, good writing got a good review, and I'd like to think that happens far more often than not.
                  Yes. You're right... overall. But the basic reason I took exception to your comment was the context - here, in this thread.

                  The new BL system is algorithm-driven. Sure, people write the scripts, people rate the scripts, but it seems that a substantial hook of this new setup is the algorithm... which leads to the auto-generated recommendations to the pro members.

                  And in BL's new digital system, one bad score can kill you in a way that an it might not in an "analog" system. That is, in an analog system, luke-warm coverage that lands on an exec's desk might still get noticed because of a great title or logline of whatever; but with an algorithm-driven/digital system, if your script misses the cutoff score by 0.001, you're screwed.

                  Thing is, we don't even know (from Geoff's post) if the script that was recommended to him by the algorithm actually did get a great review. For example: Let's say there are two producers. #1 says she wants recommendations for "comedies". #2 says he wants recommendations for "rom-coms". So a writer posts a rom-com and it gets scored as a 6.

                  Now, this is Franklin's "secret sauce" - but it might be that a 6 is enough to recommend that script to producer #2 because it's not just a comedy, it's a rom-com/comedy. But it won't recommend it to producer #1 because that would require an 8.

                  And that's why I wanted to make the (primary) point that all that Geoff's experience showed is that the algorithm worked for him.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                    Yes. You're right... overall. But the basic reason I took exception to your comment was the context - here, in this thread.

                    The new BL system is algorithm-driven. Sure, people write the scripts, people rate the scripts, but it seems that a substantial hook of this new setup is the algorithm... which leads to the auto-generated recommendations to the pro members.

                    And in BL's new digital system, one bad score can kill you in a way that an it might not in an "analog" system. That is, in an analog system, luke-warm coverage that lands on an exec's desk might still get noticed because of a great title or logline of whatever; but with an algorithm-driven/digital system, if your script misses the cutoff score by 0.001, you're screwed.

                    Thing is, we don't even know (from Geoff's post) if the script that was recommended to him by the algorithm actually did get a great review. For example: Let's say there are two producers. #1 says she wants recommendations for "comedies". #2 says he wants recommendations for "rom-coms". So a writer posts a rom-com and it gets scored as a 6.

                    Now, this is Franklin's "secret sauce" - but it might be that a 6 is enough to recommend that script to producer #2 because it's not just a comedy, it's a rom-com/comedy. But it won't recommend it to producer #1 because that would require an 8.

                    And that's why I wanted to make the (primary) point that all that Geoff's experience showed is that the algorithm worked for him.
                    You make great points. BL3.0 is a great concept and Franklin can determine how he wants to use the data to promote scripts or make them searchable in any way he wants. It's his site afterall. Last night he confirmed that the only process for determining promotion of scripts is the score. So there is nothing in place to take high praise in the reader comments for a script that scores say a 7. "very funny. actor/director bait" for example seems like something that in traditional coverage might garner a read up the chain but in this system it has no impact.

                    While I agree that the hard number of a rating is the easiest way to determine what to promote, Franklin himself has said that he likes scripts that might not always get high scores. Seems like this system doesn't afford much (or any) opportunity for a script that scores low out of the gate. Perhaps that will be resolved in some way.

                    He said last weekend that we would begin to see the algorithm applied to the site and it's search functionality by early last week. That has yet to happen as far as I can see. Franklin calls himself a numbers junky and I am as well. So I am really hoping there will be a lot of data available to explore and exploit in terms of getting eyes on scripts.

                    I'm also not clear on whether downloads will or even should result in ratings. It has not happened for me yet. Right now the only way I see getting a rating is through a paid read. I am currently waiting on my second one. The first one took just under a week. This one has just passed the one week mark.

                    All in all I am optimistic about the site. My only reservations so far are that it seems the functionality of the search is grossly unusable and the reader comments have no impact on the potential exposure of a script.

                    Once I receive my second paid review I will post a detailed summary of my experience and let others make of it what they may.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      Here's the coverage for ENTANGLEMENT (https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4130)

                      I think this is an accurate and fair assessment, so that's good. I'd be encouraged to order another paid read. I like being judged at EXTREME PRO-LEVEL™. It's fun.

                      ---

                      PREMISE: 8/10
                      PLOT: 6/10
                      CHARACTERS: 6/10
                      DIALOGUE: 6/10
                      OVERALL: 7/10

                      Era: Future - 2014

                      Locations: San Francisco

                      Budget: High

                      Genre: Sci-Fi

                      Pages: 102

                      Logline:
                      When a scientist discovers a way to receive messages from the future, he not only has to try stop disasters from happening, but he has to defend his life from his own government, who wants to control the new technology.

                      Strengths:
                      The script's concept is fantastic. It has a clear hook. The scale of the story is grand. The writer does an amazing job portraying his vision of the future, as the voice with which he writes is clear and concise. Moreover, the pacing is fantastic and the writer does an amazing job at balancing action with intrigue.

                      Weaknesses:
                      The script's B-story line tends to live on the melodramatic side, as the main romantic relationship feels trite, and tends to get in the way of the rest of the story. Additionally, the script's protagonist is not a very relatable character, which makes him hard to emotionally root for. Thankfully, the stakes are big enough that the audience still has something to root for, which is a credit to the writer. That being said, the dialogue can be greatly improved, as it at times feels too dramatic, especially in the scenes that feature protagonist's love interest.

                      Prospects
                      This could be a major film if it were to be produced. It is a high concept, but the script has so much grand action that it would have to have studio backing to fund what would be a extremely large budget.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        Cool,
                        curious, did you write that logline, or does the reader write one for you after reading the script?

                        Originally posted by Crashlander View Post
                        Here's the coverage for ENTANGLEMENT (https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4130)

                        I think this is an accurate and fair assessment, so that's good. I'd be encouraged to order another paid read. I like being judged at EXTREME PRO-LEVELTM. It's fun.

                        ---

                        PREMISE: 8/10
                        PLOT: 6/10
                        CHARACTERS: 6/10
                        DIALOGUE: 6/10
                        OVERALL: 7/10

                        Era: Future - 2014

                        Locations: San Francisco

                        Budget: High

                        Genre: Sci-Fi

                        Pages: 102

                        Logline:
                        When a scientist discovers a way to receive messages from the future, he not only has to try stop disasters from happening, but he has to defend his life from his own government, who wants to control the new technology.

                        Strengths:
                        The script's concept is fantastic. It has a clear hook. The scale of the story is grand. The writer does an amazing job portraying his vision of the future, as the voice with which he writes is clear and concise. Moreover, the pacing is fantastic and the writer does an amazing job at balancing action with intrigue.

                        Weaknesses:
                        The script's B-story line tends to live on the melodramatic side, as the main romantic relationship feels trite, and tends to get in the way of the rest of the story. Additionally, the script's protagonist is not a very relatable character, which makes him hard to emotionally root for. Thankfully, the stakes are big enough that the audience still has something to root for, which is a credit to the writer. That being said, the dialogue can be greatly improved, as it at times feels too dramatic, especially in the scenes that feature protagonist's love interest.

                        Prospects
                        This could be a major film if it were to be produced. It is a high concept, but the script has so much grand action that it would have to have studio backing to fund what would be a extremely large budget.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          The reader wrote that logline.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Question for Franklin: What are some of the new features we can except to see on BL3.0?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Got my feedback, doesn't really give me much to work on... Too bad. I mean, I already knew who my target audience was, and seems like that's why it got dinged?

                              If anyone feels gracious and wants to read/ provide their thoughts, I'd be happy to share

                              nonymous reviewer (Completed)
                              Review rating:


                              Show to public: No Yes
                              PREMISE
                              4/10

                              PLOT
                              4/10

                              CHARACTERS
                              4/10

                              DIALOGUE
                              2/10

                              OVERALL
                              4/10

                              Era: Present
                              Locations: The Suburbs; Forest
                              Budget: High
                              Genre: Animated
                              Genre: 90

                              Logline: After her father dies overseas and a little girl gains the ability to turn into a bird, she gets lost and must find her way home.

                              Strenghts: Some of the characters are very endearing. Timmy is adorable to read. Brooke's family struggle feels very real.

                              Weaknesses: The rhyming dialogue often feels forced and could grow tiresome with older audiences, but children may forgive or appreciate it. The plot of a child rebelling, getting lost, and trying to find their way home feels very familiar.

                              Prospects This story may find a modest audience amongst very young viewers who appreciate the novelties of rhyming, and their parents.

                              https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4147
                              Last edited by stainjm; 10-29-2012, 02:38 PM.
                              www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                              http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                              http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                              Twitter: @JustinMSloan

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                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Originally posted by Crashlander View Post
                                Here's the coverage for ENTANGLEMENT (https://www.blcklst.com/members/script/4130)

                                I think this is an accurate and fair assessment, so that's good. I'd be encouraged to order another paid read. I like being judged at EXTREME PRO-LEVELTM. It's fun.

                                .
                                Good job, 7 ain't bad! I agree, it would be fun if they gave me feedback I could use to improve the script. Feels like a waste of $50 otherwise.
                                www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                                http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                                http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                                Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                                Want a free book?

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