Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by The Calculator View Post
    Well it would give the writer a crucial third read w/o having to pay full freight, obviously. In fact, I was going to say that the third read should be free. Because, really, the +/- of professional readers should be 1-2, max. Not 3+.

    I'm not a "professional" reader, but then, define professional reader for me? I think we all know that the majority of readers are 25 year-old Arts grads trying to break into the industry. They're given a template to follow and told to get to it. Some are really good at it, some are not.

    In a pragmatic sense, judging a script on defined criteria like story, character, plot, originality, marketability - should be fairly straight forward. Is the writing clear? Is the story decent?

    A gap of 3 tells me that there's a possible bias involved. Therefore a third read would go a long way in indicating where the slant is. No?
    Our readers are, to a person, not Arts grads trying to break into the industry. Some are 25, some are younger, but they have all broken into the industry in some capacity and, as I've said before, all have worked previously as first filters at major agencies, production companies, or studios. Some of our readers have as much as decades of experience reading for the major studios in an official capacity.

    They are not reading based on a template, nor is evaluating for story, character, plot, originality, and marketability fairly straightforward. If it was, there would have never have been an annual Black List in the first place, nor would there be this new initiative.

    I do like the idea of the third read automatically triggered. It would not be free, however. $25 (a 50%) discount feels reasonable, but like I said, I want to take a closer look at the data once we have a month's worth.

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    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Originally posted by lordmanji View Post
      I've tried it out for a few weeks, my main concerns have been addressed, customer service has been tops and the suggestion that a third read for 25 if the difference of the first two scores is greater than 3 is a fantastic one that shows BL cares about its subscribers. Franklin, I think it might be time to drop the mic.
      Mic drop, much as I like them, implies completion. Our work is never done.

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        I do like the idea of a discount on a third read, if there is a wide discrepancy between scores. I like to save money just as much as the next guy.

        But a gap of three between two scores does not imply bias, because we do not know what the score of your screenplay should be. Suppose the score should be 6.5. Then the scores you received would be within one standard deviation of what it should be.

        That's an inherent problem with small sample size. More data points give a more precise result. IIRC, large sample size begins somewhere around 30 to 35 data points.

        If any Black List Pro members want to reward me by rating my script, the title is Pleasant Valley War.

        Comment


        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Franklin,
          I'd like to suggest you make "Previous Awards" a search field. Industry pros might be interested to find, say, Nicholl-placing scripts.
          ==========

          Comment


          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
            I've addressed this question a few times in this thread already, but I'm happy to address it again. We built our pay model to be as simple (and function as simply) as possible. We believe that it does.

            If you're uncomfortable "doing nothing" while you're waiting for your paid read from one of our readers, I encourage you to find alternate ways to get reads from industry professionals during that period. A number of writers have already done just that. And the conversation here appears to be veering to towards brainstorming ways to do just that.

            I can tell you confidently that we will not be changing this aspect of our site for the foreseeable future.
            Franklin. That's fine. But if you did make that clear prospectively, I missed it.

            See, when I raised this initially, a couple of weeks ago, you said, "You've raised some interesting arguments. We will explore." At that time, I assumed you had your platform built and this sort of thing might require a programming change. And thus, if for no other reason, that would require some "exploration".

            Then today, I saw your post about the Pause feature - which maybe was something you had even on Day 1, but it was new to me. So based on your "We will explore" comment, I thought I'd reiterate my interest. As in - "Oh, that Pause feature. If that's new, maybe you could use that to do that other thing you said you would explore..." But apparently, while I thought my request/suggestion was in the "We will explore" file - it wasn't.

            As for industry reads. I had a paid read from an industry reader on my current script. Which led to rewriting, and another read, and some great comments. But it's not as if those credits are transferable. All that matters at BL is your readers, and it was with them in mind that I made my request.

            And - I am comfortable "doing nothing" (as you say) while waiting for a paid read from BL. In fact, that is precisely what I asked that you offer. But now you say I can't do that - and won't be able to do that in the future - because if I Pause my script, to "do nothing", then the BL reader won't read my script.

            Actually, now that I've re-read and re-read that 2nd paragraph of yours, I really don't know what it means. Because you say it's impossible to "do nothing" while waiting for a paid BL read. The only way to stay active in the BL read queue is to be "doing something" - i.e., leave a script visible to producers, etc.

            In any event, you say I've raised something today that you'd already posted about and resolved. I didn't think you did. Regardless, now you have. Thanks.
            Last edited by Manchester; 11-09-2012, 01:59 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by Manchester View Post
              Franklin. That's fine. But if you did make that clear prospectively, I missed it.

              See, when I raised this initially, a couple of weeks ago, you said, "You've raised some interesting arguments. We will explore." At that time, I assumed you had your platform built and this sort of thing might require a programming change. And thus, if for no other reason, that would require some "exploration".

              Then today, I saw your post about the Pause feature - which maybe was something you had even on Day 1, but it was new to me. So based on your "We will explore" comment, I thought I'd reiterate my interest. As in - "Oh, that Pause feature. If that's new, maybe you could use that to do that other thing you said you would explore..." But apparently, while I thought my request/suggestion was in the "We will explore" file - it wasn't.

              As for industry reads. I had a paid read from an industry reader on my current script. Which led to rewriting, and another read, and some great comments. But it's not as if those credits are transferable. All that matters at BL is your readers, and it was with them in mind that I made my request.

              So you say that I've raised something today that you'd already posted about and resolved. I don't think you did. Regardless, now you have. Thanks.
              Point made, I cede the strong possibility that I did not make clear that we were not going to change our policy here. I am certain I made the comment elsewhere. All good.

              I further apologize for the use of "explore" when "consider" may have been more apt. To be clear, it would require decoding our platform but that was not the reason we decided it against it. While I recognize the instinct to assume otherwise I can assure you that a great deal of serious thought went into each decision we made about how the site is run. This isn't to say that we won't made changes as suggested by our users and others, but there's nothing sloppy about process for us.

              Comment


              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                They are not reading based on a template, nor is evaluating for story, character, plot, originality, and marketability fairly straightforward.
                Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                This isn't to say that we won't made changes as suggested by our users and others
                Are you open to taking measures to decrease rating variability? I worked for a few years on a project that required reliably converting qualitative data (multiple humans' judgments of multiple writing samples) into quantitative data (numerical ratings) for apples-to-apples comparison, and I could detail their methodology if you're interested.
                Last edited by Atlas; 11-10-2012, 10:14 AM.

                Comment


                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                  I further apologize for the use of "explore" when "consider" may have been more apt. To be clear, it would require decoding our platform but that was not the reason we decided it against it. While I recognize the instinct to assume otherwise I can assure you that a great deal of serious thought went into each decision we made about how the site is run. This isn't to say that we won't made changes as suggested by our users and others, but there's nothing sloppy about process for us.
                  "While I recognize the instinct to assume otherwise"???

                  You seem to be going out of your way here to think I insulted you.

                  When I said that maybe this or that couldn't be readily changed - even if you wanted to - because it would require recoding, it's not because I thought/assumed/presumed your original coding was "sloppy". One makes a decision to code for certain features and not code for other features - even when every aspect of the design and build is the antithesis of "sloppy". Geesh.

                  Then again, maybe I'm just experiencing a broad failure to understand. For example:
                  Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                  We depart from the assumption that evaluating screenplays is inherently a subjective endeavor. Consequently, there's no numerical rating that is a correct evaluation of a given script.
                  Why would one "depart from the assumption that evaluating screenplays is inherently a subjective endeavor" unless you were trying to establish an objective system - i.e., a system in which there is a "numerical rating that is a correct evaluation of a given script"?

                  Or, I've had a stroke.

                  Franklin, based on all sorts of posts here, both for and against, I think your endeavor is a good one, but I am totally confused by many of your posts in this thread. None of that matters if the product is good. Truly, if it works, questions as to "why" can fade away. I just thought I'd mention it.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                    Why would one "depart from the assumption that evaluating screenplays is inherently a subjective endeavor" unless you were trying to establish an objective system - i.e., a system in which there is a "numerical rating that is a correct evaluation of a given script"?

                    Or, I've had a stroke.
                    That seemed contradictory to me, too.
                    Last edited by Atlas; 11-09-2012, 05:12 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      Originally posted by Atlas View Post
                      Are you open to taking measures to decrease rating variability? I worked with the RAND Corporation for a few years on a project that required reliably converting qualitative data (multiple humans' judgments of multiple writing samples) into quantitative data (numerical ratings) for apples-to-apples comparison, and I could detail their methodology if you're interested.
                      Please get in touch via email. Addresses can be found on the About page of our website.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                        "While I recognize the instinct to assume otherwise"???

                        You seem to be going out of your way here to think I insulted you.

                        When I said that maybe this or that couldn't be readily changed - even if you wanted to - because it would require recoding, it's not because I thought/assumed/presumed your original coding was "sloppy". One makes a decision to code for certain features and not code for other features - even when every aspect of the design and build is the antithesis of "sloppy". Geesh.

                        Then again, maybe I'm just experiencing a broad failure to understand. For example:


                        Why would one "depart from the assumption that evaluating screenplays is inherently a subjective endeavor" unless you were trying to establish an objective system - i.e., a system in which there is a "numerical rating that is a correct evaluation of a given script"?

                        Or, I've had a stroke.

                        Franklin, based on all sorts of posts here, both for and against, I think your endeavor is a good one, but I am totally confused by many of your posts in this thread. None of that matters if the product is good. Truly, if it works, questions as to "why" can fade away. I just thought I'd mention it.
                        Please allow me to clarify:

                        1. Please reread this thread. You will find countless examples of people making the assumption that we do something a certain way because we hadn't considered the alternative or multiple alternatives. That is rarely, if ever, the case. My comment was not directed at you specifically. It was directed at what I perceive to be a natural tendency to assume that people have not given real thought to their decisions, one further born out by my experience thus far explaining the Black List here.

                        2. We depart from the assumption that judging a screenplay is an inherently subjective endeavor because it is. That in no way implies that our goal is establishing an objective one. We use quantitative data as an intermediary in order to manage that subjectivity but our explicit goal is helping filmmakers find screenplays and helping screenplays find filmmakers.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          My script received it's second review tonight and it has now hit the front page of BL3.0 as one of the top uploaded scripts.

                          If you are curious to read the latest review (**SPOILER ALERT** It scored a 9) then go here https://blcklst.com/members/script/3869

                          THE MASCOT is a broad, silly, comedy taking place in the world of sports mascots. It's better than you think. Honestly.

                          This is not because I am thrilled with the latest review but I want to say that BL3.0 has proven to be everything Franklin says and only looks like it will get better. Franklin has been patient, kind and very straight forward in answering every question posed. I am optimistic that we have a new way into Hollywood.

                          If anyone reads THE MASCOT let me know what you think.

                          If you are still on the fence about the service and want to throw me a question about my experience and conclusions, I am on Twitter @TheUrbanHobo as well.

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                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Good for you, wickedlies. Good luck with it.

                            HH

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                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Congrats, Wicked!

                              Be sure and keep us informed if something good happens. Good ratings and positive reads and plenty of downloads are all well, but I think the true value of BL depends on its ability to open the tinsel gates for a scribe.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                How are the lists of top uploaded scripts arranged for writers? Since we don't have information on tastes to input into an algorithm -- I'm just wondering...

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