How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

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  • #31
    Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

    Considering Fred had over eighty screenplays and teleplays produced, I think he meant an economy of words was the sign of a good writer.
    Ron Aberdeen
    http://www.ronaberdeen.com/
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3609083/

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

      This seems like childish arguement and something I have to be a part of...


      it's not always one minute a page.

      My favorite part of this thread was when someone chimed in with the only little bit of knowledge he had about how movie has to be atleast 90 minutes... then said well you can add credits and...

      sorta answered his own question.


      I don't live in producer world, or care what some **** says. Theater owners are the ones that buy the movies and they'll buy anything with DiCaprio in; even if it's 140 mintes, or only 80. So if you get DiCaprio to love the film at 80, your gold.

      I would go out on a limb, also, and guess that a script that is an epic or action flick is not held up to the same standerd as some garbage TV script or Comedy, where the return is never huge and scenes are cut like drawing in a children's coloring book.

      It's just a different type of writing that some people are ignorant of.

      I'm sure condensing page count has been done effectively, no one is going to write a an epic entrance at minute per page, that's just stupid.
      But this wily god never discloses even to the skillful questioner the whole content of his wisdom.

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      • #33
        Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

        So angry!

        Originally posted by reddery View Post
        This seems like childish arguement and something I have to be a part of...


        it's not always one minute a page.

        My favorite part of this thread was when someone chimed in with the only little bit of knowledge he had about how movie has to be atleast 90 minutes... then said well you can add credits and...

        sorta answered his own question.


        I don't live in producer world, or care what some **** says. Theater owners are the ones that buy the movies and they'll buy anything with DiCaprio in; even if it's 140 mintes, or only 80. So if you get DiCaprio to love the film at 80, your gold.

        I would go out on a limb, also, and guess that a script that is an epic or action flick is not held up to the same standerd as some garbage TV script or Comedy, where the return is never huge and scenes are cut like drawing in a children's coloring book.

        It's just a different type of writing that some people are ignorant of.

        I'm sure condensing page count has been done effectively, no one is going to write a an epic entrance at minute per page, that's just stupid.

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        • #34
          Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

          4am rant from Reddery. Looks like someone had fun on 4/20.

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          • #35
            Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            So angry!
            To be fair, though, he's right, page count is really the only little bit of knowledge you have, Jeff.

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            • #36
              Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

              It's the question I hate to ask myself, so I'll ask the OP instead:

              Is it 80 pages because it's as perfect as you can possibly make it?

              Or

              Is it 80 pages because you just want to be done
              and
              you know you have the kernel of a good idea
              and
              you've banged that idea out
              and
              you want the world to see it now
              and
              it's probably good enough
              and
              it's the concept that counts
              and
              they'll re-write it anyone
              and
              you want the world to see it now
              and
              you dread another re-write
              and
              your idea's awesome
              and
              contained thrillers are hot right now
              and
              it's the concept that counts
              and
              they'll re-write it anyone
              and
              and


              And if you honestly answer- yes- to the first question then I say, sink-or-swim, it's done. If not...

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                The industry standard is around 90 pgs minimum. Common sense tells you that's what you should shoot for. Getting someone to read your script is hard enough w/o maybe giving ppl another reason to be suspicious about your work.

                I write pretty lean myself, so i get the idea that some scripts will be on the short side. I wrote a horror that came in at around 88 pgs. I wasn't worried about it b/c I figured it was close enough. But some ppl (non-industry) who read it questioned the length.

                Some movies are lean and mean... but you really should re-examine your script to make sure it's not missing anything.

                Get it as close to 90 as you can.

                "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                  It's the question I hate to ask myself, so I'll ask the OP instead:

                  Is it 80 pages because it's as perfect as you can possibly make it?

                  Or

                  Is it 80 pages because you just want to be done
                  and
                  you know you have the kernel of a good idea
                  and
                  you've banged that idea out
                  and
                  you want the world to see it now
                  and
                  it's probably good enough
                  and
                  it's the concept that counts
                  and
                  they'll re-write it anyone
                  and
                  you want the world to see it now
                  and
                  you dread another re-write
                  and
                  your idea's awesome
                  and
                  contained thrillers are hot right now
                  and
                  it's the concept that counts
                  and
                  they'll re-write it anyone
                  and
                  and


                  And if you honestly answer- yes- to the first question then I say, sink-or-swim, it's done. If not...
                  You've got it all wrong Joe. I actually take a lot of pride in my work. My toher script that I was working on for way over 6 months came out at a very average length. 114 pages.

                  But this is one character, in one location. Very different to my other script. A completely different animal.

                  No, I am not sure it is as perfect as it can be. But i'm not sending it out yet. I am CONSTANTLY rewriting it and will not stop until it is perfect.

                  You're confusing me with some hack who wants to send his work out being at the bare minimum because he can't be bothered finishing it. THAT IS NOT ME.

                  It's currently on 82 pages and i'm not close to being done with it thank you very much.

                  However, I do not believe there will be much in the way of length added to it, so it it i likely to stay at 82 pages.

                  Unless you want me to add redundant filler to it to increase the page count.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                    He was merely posing these questions as a way to help you gain insight into your project. He wasn't challenging the amount of pride you take in your work.

                    Bottom line: an 80 page script will raise eyebrows, and not in a good way. Most won't discard an extremely well written 80 page script if it's bulletproof. However, if you want to hedge your bets, get it north of 85 at the very least.

                    If you're on 82, you're on the right track, draw out suspense where you can, embellish some bare descriptions if need be.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                      Well he sounds extremely cynical to me.

                      I wish there was a cure for that.

                      But I'm pretty sure I've fleshed out the story as far as it goes. And i really don't want to add filler, even if it does get me more reads. Because ultimately, it's just going to slow down the pace, and make it a worse experience overall.

                      I'm not saying it is finished now. I am having people read it and give me feedback and a million things MIGHT change. But I don't know. I am not sure length will be one of them.

                      Even getting from 82 pages to 85 now seems like the most difficult task in the world to me.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                        He seemed to be offering genuine advice, maybe you should just be less defensive. How do you open the film? You might be able to have some sort of interesting pre-credits opening if it makes sense to include one.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                          Fanatic,
                          I beat myself up every bit as badly. I meant that I find it helpful to ask myself if it's really done --or if I just want it to be done. I know I very rarely pass the test!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                            Geez, if you're within a page or two, just adding 1pt of extra spacing to either the ACTION, CHARACTER or SCENE HEADING styles does it for ya'. I do it all the time, + or - a pt or sometimes 2.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                              Normally screenplays that fall short on page counts probably do so because of the lack of planning before the writing.

                              Did you write an outline, did you study the structure, write a character profile for the main roles and decide on beats that you wanted to meet in telling the story?

                              One way to add pages to a script is to write a consequences conclusion, this is easily done for almost any story.
                              Ron Aberdeen
                              http://www.ronaberdeen.com/
                              http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3609083/

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: How strict are readers? (80 pages too short for spec?)

                                Originally posted by fanatic_about_film View Post
                                a million things MIGHT change. But I don't know. I am not sure length will be one of them.
                                So the point of this thread is...?

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