Picking Right Idea

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  • Re: Picking Right Idea

    Originally posted by Bono View Post
    If I ever become a well known writer, I'm 100% going to make up some fake procress and see if other writers do it my way. I'll tell everyone I write naked and always have a hard boiled egg nearby as inspiration.
    Before calling it a fake process, you must try writing naked with a hard boiled egg nearby.

    FADE IN:

    A naked young man sits at his desk, tapping a pencil on a yellow lined pad.

    Nearby, on the desk, we see a large brown grade AA hardboiled egg, small pieces of its shell in a neat pile.

    This is BONO, an aspiring screenwriter, deep in thought, searching for the "right idea". Nothing but a hardboiled AA egg, out of its brown shell, inspires him, as we shall see.
    Last edited by jonpiper; 08-03-2020, 05:54 PM. Reason: To correct description of the egg.

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    • Re: Picking Right Idea

      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
      I probably play with 50 ideas for movies a year and if I'm lucky I come up with one great one every two or three years.
      "... I come up with one great one every two or three years.-

      How are you defining "great-?

      I consider "great- as being of high art: weighty message (theme), deep, rich characters and story, i.e., "Casablanca,- "Rebecca,- "The Apartment,- "On The Waterfront,- "The Godfather,- "Schindler's List,- "The Bridge on the River Kwai,- etc.

      You wrote the teen romantic comedy JOHN TUCKER MUST DIE.

      In my opinion, this was the RIGHT story idea and screenplay for Twentieth Century Fox, and it was a commercial success with an estimated budget of $18,000,000 and a worldwide gross of $69,000,000 (audience approval rating of 69% on Rotten Tomatoes), but I wouldn't consider it high art.

      I'm a big fan of romantic comedies, and I seen TUCKER on its opening weekend. I enjoyed it. It was a light, fun movie that entertained its audience.

      You must admit that the story idea of TUCKER would not be considered to be of the status of "great,- which the story idea is three teen girls plotting revenge on a hot and popular jock after finding out he was secretly dating all three.

      This story idea is derivative. There are plenty of movies that have a pissed off girl wanting revenge on a cheating jerk.

      A few years after the release of TUCKER, "The Other Woman- starring Cameron Diaz, Leslie Mann and Kate Upton was released, where the story idea is about three women who go after a player who cheated on all of them.

      Jeff, I had to point this "great- issue out because it seems like you were setting a false one-way-only level for a non-pro to succeed, which is that the story idea must be great.

      Oh, don't get me wrong. It's great to have a great story idea, but as you have proven with TUCKER, it's not whether or not the story idea is GREAT. There are some great story ideas/screenplays that were bombs with a moviegoing audience, or its budget was so expensive it wasn't a commercial success.

      It's about a combination of variables to consider: Does the story idea sound commercial; Does it have a strong targeted audience; Will its execution resonate with its targeted audience; Does the budget make sense?

      TUCKER was the RIGHT script for everyone involved because it hit on all those variables and was a commercial success: opening weekend was 75% female, 68% under 25 and with a budget of $18,000,000 it was able to make a profit for its buyer/distributor with having a gross of $69,000,000.

      You see, I must believe what I'm saying because right now I'm writing a teen romantic comedy where its story idea is not high concept and it's derivative.

      The following is the logline (members, please, at this time I'm not looking for comments on the logline. I do not want to derail the thread. Hold all comments for a later date):

      When a Goth's secret metalhead crush is obsessed with the hottest girl in high school, she helps him score a date so he can realize she's not his true love, but will her plan backfire?

      Sure, for the majority of romantic comedies it's about the boy and girl getting together in the end, which some don't like this predictability aspect, but it's also about the dramatic and emotional journey of getting to that happy ending.

      In a couple of months, I'll be posting the link to the screenplay in the ANNOUNCEMENT forum to get members' opinions.

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      • Re: Picking Right Idea

        Comment


        • Re: Picking Right Idea

          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
          I’m not arguing anything. I thought this was a discussion. I outline and think constantly about my characters wants and needs. I find it interesting that writers take lots of different approaches to get to the same place.

          Jeff meant "what are you trying to say" with your posts. I thought you were saying -- ideas don't matter -- it's the writer that matters. This whole thread I started was to say ideas are the most important step in the process.

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          • Re: Picking Right Idea

            I don't think ideas are number 1, I think execution. Craftsmanship. Knowing how to write character and plot and have them work together and against one another.

            I'd like to ask a producer if they had two scripts in front of them. One was a great idea that was not taken full advantage of in the script, it didn't live up to it's potential and poorly written and the other script was a generic romcom that some writer wrote the **** out of. Which writer would they call? Be curious to know.

            Comment


            • Re: Picking Right Idea

              Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
              “... I come up with one great one every two or three years.” — Jeff Lowell

              How are you defining “great”?

              I consider “great” as being of high art: weighty message (theme), deep, rich characters and story, i.e., “Casablanca,” “Rebecca,” “The Apartment,” “On The Waterfront,” “The Godfather,” “Schindler’s List,” “The Bridge on the River Kwai,” etc.

              You wrote the teen romantic comedy JOHN TUCKER MUST DIE... but I wouldn’t consider it high art.
              A “great” screenplay idea is one that has commercial appeal for its demographic and is a well-executed story, irrespective of any opinion of its artistic merit. The entertainment film industry is in the business of making movies, where commercialism meets art for profit.

              Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
              There are some great story ideas/screenplays that were bombs with a moviegoing audience, or its budget was so expensive it wasn’t a commercial success.
              The Shawshank Redemption (1994) barely recouped its costs. Meanwhile a film such as The Player (1992) made a respectable profit, but IMO didn’t become the box office hit it deserved to be. Both of these examples, however, have become “classics” among cinephiles.

              Originally posted by Bono View Post
              This whole thread I started was to say ideas are the most important step in the process.
              “Great” ideas are the most important step in the process..

              “My test for an idea is this: when someone hears it, they can see the movie, and they think ‘why hasn't anyone made that yet?’” — Jeff Lowell
              Last edited by Clint Hill; 08-03-2020, 08:12 PM.
              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

              Comment


              • Re: Picking Right Idea

                Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                I don't think ideas are number 1, I think execution. Craftsmanship. Knowing how to write character and plot and have them work together and against one another.

                I'd like to ask a producer if they had two scripts in front of them. One was a great idea that was not taken full advantage of in the script, it didn't live up to it's potential and poorly written and the other script was a generic romcom that some writer wrote the **** out of. Which writer would they call? Be curious to know.

                In what I'm saying , the same writer, is picking from his/her own ideas. And I'm saying, make sure you pick a great one not just the first one. I'm not talking about a taste test of Script A vs Script B and 2 different writers.

                And of course execution matters and plenty of other things. I would guess though in your scenario that a producer would choose the great idea (can always rewrite or get a new writer) over well written generic bullshit. Which is the whole point of this thread.

                Comment


                • Re: Picking Right Idea

                  Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                  How are you defining "great-?

                  [...]

                  You wrote the teen romantic comedy JOHN TUCKER MUST DIE.
                  That was a GREAT idea. It was so great that I sold it to MGM. I think a couple hundred original specs a year get bought by major studios, and mine was one of them. It was then so great that when MGM didn't make it, Fox bought it from them. And then it was so great that Fox decided to spend forty million dollars producing and advertising and releasing it, using one of their precious slots. And then it was so great that it made a great return for Fox, and still does well in reruns/rentals to this day. I'll be gross and talk money: I didn't sell it for a ton, but I did rewrites for MGM and Fox. Made seven figures before it was made. And have made close to another seven figures in residuals since it came out. And fans of it hired me for years to work on other movies.

                  So, yes, that was a great idea for a screenplay spec.

                  You must admit that the story idea of TUCKER would not be considered to be of the status of "great,- which the story idea is three teen girls plotting revenge on a hot and popular jock after finding out he was secretly dating all three.

                  This story idea is derivative. There are plenty of movies that have a pissed off girl wanting revenge on a cheating jerk.
                  Ah, but do any movies have a group of women who aren't friends being brought together by getting revenge on the guy who used them? And they weren't just getting some kind of boring revenge - they recruited a girl, and using what they knew about John Tucker, they made him fall in love and then broke HIS heart, just like he'd broken all of their hearts. Plus the star of the movie was the girl they recruited - she wanted friends, not John Tucker, but she fell in love with someone else along the way and her deception cost her that relationship. Holy shit - I've never seen that movie! I'm getting excited again just thinking about what a great idea that was. I'm a genius!

                  A few years after the release of TUCKER, "The Other Woman- starring Cameron Diaz, Leslie Mann and Kate Upton was released, where the story idea is about three women who go after a player who cheated on all of them.
                  So it's derivative because someone stole it after it came out?

                  Jeff, I had to point this "great- issue out because it seems like you were setting a false one-way-only level for a non-pro to succeed, which is that the story idea must be great.
                  John Tucker was a teen movie, but it was a fucking original one that was marketable and connected with its audience.

                  You see, I must believe what I'm saying because right now I'm writing a teen romantic comedy where its story idea is not high concept and it's derivative.
                  I believe that's what we in the business call a "suicide mission." Your BEST case scenario is that it's exquisitely executed, people actually bother to read it even though it has two huge strikes against it, and decide to hire you to write something else.

                  But again, if I'm a rep or producer and you query me, and my thought is "derivative and not high concept," why on earth would I ask to read it? I'm not going to get it made. Why should it give it 90 minutes of my life on earth?

                  When a Goth's secret metalhead crush is obsessed with the hottest girl in high school, she helps him score a date so he can realize she's not his true love, but will her plan backfire?
                  Let me hazard a guess. The plan seems to backfire on the Goth - the metalhead and the hot girl fall in love! The Goth is sure she screwed up. But then the relationship goes awry. And the metalhead, looking for comfort, finally notices the girl he was supposed to be with the whole time, the one who was right in front of him... the Goth! But then - damn it - he discovers that she was manipulating him by setting him up with the hot girl with bad intentions - she was a liar! Relationship over. She's heartbroken. And then she makes a gesture/speech that wins him back... They kiss... Fireworks...

                  That's a problem. If I can tell you your whole movie by reading one sentence, the audience will know your whole movie by looking at your poster.

                  Sure, for the majority of romantic comedies it's about the boy and girl getting together in the end, which some don't like this predictability aspect, but it's also about the dramatic and emotional journey of getting to that happy ending.
                  I'll grant you that. But you need a story that surprises you along the way. You need a logline that suggests there'll be something surprising and original in it. Put some great twists in there that make it an original take on an old form. My favorite example of this is "Meet The Parents." It seems like boy gets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back. But that was the B story. They made the A story the relationship between the suitor and his girlfriend's father. That's genius!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Picking Right Idea

                    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                    "... I come up with one great one every two or three years.-

                    How are you defining "great-?

                    I consider "great- as being of high art: weighty message (theme), deep, rich characters and story, i.e., "Casablanca,- "Rebecca,- "The Apartment,- "On The Waterfront,- "The Godfather,- "Schindler's List,- "The Bridge on the River Kwai,- etc.

                    You wrote the teen romantic comedy JOHN TUCKER MUST DIE.

                    In my opinion, this was the RIGHT story idea and screenplay for Twentieth Century Fox, and it was a commercial success with an estimated budget of $18,000,000 and a worldwide gross of $69,000,000 (audience approval rating of 69% on Rotten Tomatoes), but I wouldn't consider it high art.

                    I'm a big fan of romantic comedies, and I seen TUCKER on its opening weekend. I enjoyed it. It was a light, fun movie that entertained its audience.

                    You must admit that the story idea of TUCKER would not be considered to be of the status of "great,- which the story idea is three teen girls plotting revenge on a hot and popular jock after finding out he was secretly dating all three.

                    This story idea is derivative. There are plenty of movies that have a pissed off girl wanting revenge on a cheating jerk.

                    A few years after the release of TUCKER, "The Other Woman- starring Cameron Diaz, Leslie Mann and Kate Upton was released, where the story idea is about three women who go after a player who cheated on all of them.

                    Jeff, I had to point this "great- issue out because it seems like you were setting a false one-way-only level for a non-pro to succeed, which is that the story idea must be great.

                    Oh, don't get me wrong. It's great to have a great story idea, but as you have proven with TUCKER, it's not whether or not the story idea is GREAT. There are some great story ideas/screenplays that were bombs with a moviegoing audience, or its budget was so expensive it wasn't a commercial success.

                    It's about a combination of variables to consider: Does the story idea sound commercial; Does it have a strong targeted audience; Will its execution resonate with its targeted audience; Does the budget make sense?

                    TUCKER was the RIGHT script for everyone involved because it hit on all those variables and was a commercial success: opening weekend was 75% female, 68% under 25 and with a budget of $18,000,000 it was able to make a profit for its buyer/distributor with having a gross of $69,000,000.

                    You see, I must believe what I'm saying because right now I'm writing a teen romantic comedy where its story idea is not high concept and it's derivative.

                    The following is the logline (members, please, at this time I'm not looking for comments on the logline. I do not want to derail the thread. Hold all comments for a later date):

                    When a Goth's secret metalhead crush is obsessed with the hottest girl in high school, she helps him score a date so he can realize she's not his true love, but will her plan backfire?

                    Sure, for the majority of romantic comedies it's about the boy and girl getting together in the end, which some don't like this predictability aspect, but it's also about the dramatic and emotional journey of getting to that happy ending.

                    In a couple of months, I'll be posting the link to the screenplay in the ANNOUNCEMENT forum to get members' opinions.
                    The balls on this guy. 😆

                    Comment


                    • Re: Picking Right Idea

                      Holy hell -- one great idea lead to a great script which lead to a screenwriting career. Maybe it is important after all.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Picking Right Idea

                        Originally posted by Bono View Post
                        Holy hell -- one great idea lead to a great script which lead to a screenwriting career. Maybe it is important after all.
                        To be fair, I was already working when I sold John Tucker Must Die. But that is the story of my first script... actually...

                        Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                        I don't think ideas are number 1, I think execution. Craftsmanship. Knowing how to write character and plot and have them work together and against one another.

                        I'd like to ask a producer if they had two scripts in front of them. One was a great idea that was not taken full advantage of in the script, it didn't live up to it's potential and poorly written and the other script was a generic romcom that some writer wrote the **** out of. Which writer would they call? Be curious to know.
                        I'll tell you which one would be a thousand times more likely to sell. Number one. Zero question about it. Because with that great idea beating at the heart of a script, you might end up with a movie after it gets rewritten.

                        As for number two, you keep missing the point that it's not likely to end up on that producer's desk at all. Why is he reading a generic romcom that he knows he's not going to be able to make?

                        There are plenty of examples of scripts that never got made but the writer got a lot of work from. I broke in with one of those! It had a few things going against it - it was a dark comedy about the industry, and not many of those get made. But the writing got me my first screenplay job, and more beyond that. I rewrote/pitched/wrote a lot of more commercial ideas (like John Tucker Must Die), and have worked solidly for the last twenty five years.

                        And here's the important thing - even though it didn't get made, the story was great! It was great enough that people rolled the dice on reading it, even though they knew it was a tough sale. They wanted to know what happened, and they'd never heard of anything like it.

                        If a producer has two scripts on his desk, and one has a great commercial story but bad writing, and the other has a great non-commercial story and great writing, he'll buy the first one and have the second writer rewrite it.

                        FWIW, the script was called "Who Have You Killed For Me Lately?" and it was about an agent on his way out who accidentally kills the rival agent that stole his star client. Instead of it hurting his career, it makes it: everyone wants the agent who would literally kill for them.

                        It was a little like The Player, but it was a dark riff on it: Hollywood is so amoral that murder isn't an impediment to success.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Picking Right Idea

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          Holy hell -- one great idea lead to a great script which lead to a screenwriting career. Maybe it is important after all.
                          Led or Lead—The Past Tense of (To) Lead?
                          “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                          • Re: Picking Right Idea

                            So, great execution of a version of boy meets girl or girl meets boy will never get up the food chain?

                            I always thought those on the outside looking in should be trying to get a solid sample together. Their version of a serial killer flick, or their version of a black sheep from a wealthy family. Jeff, your script reminds me of Swimming With Sharks which is a great movie but no one is going to be wowed by its logline. Just like you wrote your version of the under belly of Hollywood. The agent or producer that read it maybe said look we're not gonna make this but here's this assignment you'd be right for.

                            The guy with the great idea with poor execution has no shot at that assignment. I understand the small percentage of a time that someone may buy a script purely based on idea but that has to be a very minute percentage of script sales.

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                            • Re: Picking Right Idea

                              "It's possible for me to make a bad movie out of a good script, but I can't make a good movie from a bad script.- - George Clooney

                              It's possible to create a poor film from a great script (idea), but it's impossible to create a great film from a poor script (idea).
                              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                              • Re: Picking Right Idea


                                I stink at grammar -- hence screenwriting and not prose.

                                EDIT -- I was making fun of myself not that it doesn't matter. Just in case...
                                Last edited by Bono; 08-03-2020, 08:08 PM.

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