Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

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  • Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

    This is in regards to an hour-long pilot and I realize it should be in the TV forum. But I put it here because I think the issue of dealing with notes from either your reps or producers is a delicate situation and this could help a wider group of members.

    I wrote a pilot that got a tremendous response from my manager and my agent. This is a comedy-drama version of a Nip/Tuck type show. It's basically a final draft except for one seemingly small issue. I open with a scene of a supporting character that ends with a nice segue into the introduction of the main character. They suggest I move this back a little and start right on the main character. They seem to believe that you shouldn't start something on anybody but the main character.

    I disagree with this note. I wrote this thing with no chains on me and came up with something quirky and unique. I think it's a rather inspired introduction to the main character and that their suggestion is run-of-the-mill, ordinary, obvious stuff. My manager is a little more serious about this than my agent. My agent has a nice belief that if you love it, it should stay. But it's really a no-win situation for me. If I fight to keep what I want, I upset them. If I keep them happy, I have to change something I really like. I've cooperated with all of their other notes, even a few I didn't love. I trust in their guidance. But I have to wonder where I draw the line and stand up for my creative instincts. I realize I've never had a sale, but I can't believe that their instincts are always more correct than my own.

    So my question for everybody is a two-parter: 1) What would you do about moving that scene? Is it indeed acceptable to start on a supporting character? 2) How would you handle this situation with your reps?

    Ele...

  • #2
    Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

    Sadly I can't advise you on dealing with reps, but I like your instincts. IMHO the more you deviate from a clichéd intro, the better. Almost like they're asking you to write on-the-nose dialogue. Having said that, have you asked trusted friends/readers for their opinions? Perhaps the intro is roundabout or misleading in some way other than the fact that it doesn't alight on the protag? Which, again, can be quirky and fun but if the concern is that it doesn't draw the viewer in...

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    • #3
      Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

      I'm probably not going to be much help, but I'll be supportive...

      I think if this were a *quality* issue, you should address the note. But it sounds like a *preference* issue. No one is saying it's a terrible scene, right? Just that you should start with the star.

      A preference thing should be decided by the people with the money. Before that, the script should be *your* script. The best script that it can be, but if there are two "equal" ways to do something, it needs to be your way until the guy with the money pays you to do it his way.

      Two suggestions:

      1) Find some successful show that opened with a supporting character. There are a zillion non-comedy shows that do this (law and crime shows always open with the crime) but I just don't watch enough comedy shows to come up with an easy example. I don't even think it has to be the pilot - if it's just a regular episode, I think that shows that it can be done. "Hey, EARL often opens with a supporting character, and it's a massive hit!"

      2) Tell your peeps that the network is going to want to make some changes anyway, right? So you want to leave this as is, so that they don't make some other change that may damage the story. It's your sacrificial lamb.

      But I think if you really think it works best as is, you should keep it.

      - Bill
      Free Script Tips:
      http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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      • #4
        Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

        You use the term "nice Segue". I've had situations where someone wanted to move one of my scenes and I resisted at first... but then realized I wasn't in love with the scene where it was... I was in love with the segue.

        I think it might help to ask yourself that same question.

        Good Luck
        "Take the thing you love, and make it your life"--Californication. [email protected]

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        • #5
          Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

          Stick to your guns but clearly and passionately explain why you're sticking to them...they'll dig you even more even if they won't admit it.
          "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.- - Don Draper

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          • #6
            Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

            Originally posted by ylekot43 View Post
            You use the term "nice Segue". I've had situations where someone wanted to move one of my scenes and I resisted at first... but then realized I wasn't in love with the scene where it was... I was in love with the segue.

            I think it might help to ask yourself that same question.

            Good Luck
            I'm in love with the scene. I mentioned the "segue" is to point out that it isn't a meaningless scene in terms of the main character's arch or the story as a whole. There's a payoff to the scene that relates to the bigger picture. To tell you the truth, there's foreshadowing for something I would want to reveal seasons later hidden in that scene. As you can see, I'm pretty proud of it.

            I also happen to think that logistically it wouldn't work moving this scene later. I'm surprised this isn't completely obvious to my reps.

            And to answer Bill Martell, yes, it does sound like a preference issue for them. They simply seem to believe that a story should be started on the main character.

            Ele...

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            • #7
              Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

              Do they refer to the main character in the opening scene in any way? How important is this supporting character? Does your main character get an even better introduction than this supporting character (which is main thing) even if it's not first?

              "We're all immigrants now, man."
              - Zia (Patrick Fugit), "Wristcutters: A Love Story"

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              • #8
                Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                Originally posted by velysai View Post
                Do they refer to the main character in the opening scene in any way? How important is this supporting character? Does your main character get an even better introduction than this supporting character (which is main thing) even if it's not first?
                Basically, the opening scene is of a supporting character who will re-enter the main character's life and cause a lot of problems. They are friends who haven't spoken in years. What we see is his reason for seeking the main character out.

                After this, we meet the main character and he has a good few pages where we learn about him, his success, his life...it's a nice sequence that is intercut with flashes to these aspects of his life. And through this "montage," if you will, we meet the rest of the supporting cast.

                Ele...

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                • #9
                  Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                  Is it possible to tweak the scene so it is ABOUT the main character but not actually have the character in it until the end?

                  And doesn't the 1st episode of 'House' start with a scene of the patient ... leading into a nice seque of how we learn all about House ?

                  Mac
                  New blogposts:
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                  • #10
                    Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                    Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                    Is it possible to tweak the scene so it is ABOUT the main character but not actually have the character in it until the end?

                    And doesn't the 1st episode of 'House' start with a scene of the patient ... leading into a nice seque of how we learn all about House ?

                    Mac
                    I think I mention the main character as much as I can in that scene. He's essentially the solution to the supporting character's problem. It's like watching Ghostbusters. Slimer messes up the library or whatever...who you gonna call?...intro our future ghostbusters. I think it makes sense. I'm confident that I introduce this main character in a creative and effective way.

                    If this is true about House, please let me know. I could use some examples. Especially if it's the pilot.

                    Ele...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                      I think the Buffy pilot actually started with Darla eating some highschooler.
                      "Take the thing you love, and make it your life"--Californication. [email protected]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                        Ele, for what it's worth, I'd be inclined to sacrifice your great opening, but only if you feel it will better your chances of getting it into production.

                        You've obviously worked hard to get an agent and a manager in the first place, so my advice would be -- "As painful as it is, grit your teeth and play the game".
                        Last edited by Terrance Mulloy; 01-06-2008, 12:21 AM.
                        @TerranceMulloy

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                        • #13
                          Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                          It's true about both Buffy and House. The Law & Order shows do it. The CSI shows often do it, too. Just to name a few.

                          It's not a matter of whether you HAVE to start with the main character. You obviously don't have to. It's whether your story is served best by changing the introductions around.

                          Personally, if I felt as strongly about it as you seem to, I wouldn't change it unless someone willing to pay for it tells me to change it. Is your manager not going to help you anymore if you refuse to change it? That seems unlikely. Plus, you said your agent doesn't really care about the issue at all.

                          Do what feels right to you while you can.

                          "We're all immigrants now, man."
                          - Zia (Patrick Fugit), "Wristcutters: A Love Story"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                            You should keep the current order of the scenes because the big picture your reps can't see is the dramatic context (frame of reference) of how everything fits together.

                            Dramatic Context is most often determined by the order of events (scenes).

                            It appears you have done the following:

                            -Establish the world
                            -Establish a central character (not the main one)
                            -Establish the main conflict/obstacle
                            -Escalate & complicate the conflict by introducing the main character into the secondary protagonist's life

                            This works because the audience has a frame of reference to the world, the main conflict and secondary characters, so now the main character can be introduced. This would not be as effective if you did not establish the world, conflict and secondary characters first.

                            This allows you to drop the audience into the present where they can witness the fallout a.k.a drama, of those past events between the characters they were not present for.

                            Real world examples of this format for your reps:

                            -Scripted TV shows (House; Bones; BSG)
                            -Reality shows (Pageant Place; The Hills)
                            -Features (Michael Clayton; 310 to Yuma)
                            Positive outcomes. Only.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                              Stick in a laugh out loud joke that could only be used in the
                              context of this minor character's scene which your reps
                              and any readers just can't possibly resist using?
                              myhomeconvalesceblog

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