This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

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  • #16
    Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

    Originally posted by MrZero View Post
    Another problem that usually arises in these discussions is the failure to grasp that "quality" is necessarily a relative term. A script like Safe House might be garbage when compared with The Godfather, but it's still fifty times better than your typical amateur spec.

    The sad truth is that the worst movie you saw last year, that pile of cinematic bilge that you've been urging your friends to avoid at all costs, was made by people with talents far above the median.

    There was that story that made the news recently about a journeyman NBA player who, tired of hearing criticisms about his skills, challenged a bunch of fans to a series of one-on-one basketball games with him. He trounced every one of them.
    The White Mamba!

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    • #17
      Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

      Speaking of Guggenheim, I'm not ashamed to admit that Re-entry is the NBA Playoffs to my fourth-grade-pickup-game.

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      • #18
        Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

        Originally posted by michaelb View Post
        This.

        Rant, you always keep blaming the script, but to me, it shows a total lack of understanding how films are made.

        Best,

        MB
        I'm a big defender of writers, I don't think I'm always blaming the script. At least I hope not. I'm always in favor of writers getting more recognition, standing up for themselves, being proactive and not doormats, etc. And I understand how many different people and voices have to come together for a movie to get made.

        And of course, everything is subjective. But HW does have at its disposal an unbelievable pool of talent, from writers to execs to producers, directors, actors, and everything in between. They have the best of the best, the pro players, who worked so hard to get to that elite place. So yes, it is sometimes astounding to see what this incredibly talented pool of people produces...

        And yes, I think there is probably once in a while a bad script that gets made. Just like bad novels are published. I don't exactly think that's an outrageous statement to make

        And I certainly would expect more from the stars of, respectively, two of the most admired and beloved franchises in contemporary cinema!

        Anyway, what's interesting, and I guess what makes my observation the farthest thing from interesting, is that a century ago, novelists were bitching about the same thing -- the state of the industry and the amount of commercial junk that was published.

        And also, I don't know if it's just what I've chosen to watch lately, but is it my imagination or do indie flicks seem to be experiencing a revival? Maybe it's all cyclical, and about action generating reaction, and after a certain period of nothing but big fare, a need arises for change.

        @ Jeff: OK, maybe the script Willis first read wasn't the one that was filmed. But he's freaking Bruce Willis. He's got pull. Don't you think if he thought a script was bad that he would do something about it? Maybe the egos of stars sometimes turn good scripts into bad films, but surely the opposite must happen also: an actor with decades of experience can recognize bad dialogue, horrible plotting, etc. I've met a lot of cultural attaches in my life --most of them do not exactly look like Bruce Willis (his "cover" in the film, as opposed to his true identity as a CIA spy)
        Last edited by Rantanplan; 02-10-2013, 08:31 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

          Originally posted by MrZero View Post

          There was that story that made the news recently about a journeyman NBA player who, tired of hearing criticisms about his skills, challenged a bunch of fans to a series of one-on-one basketball games with him. He trounced every one of them.
          I find that to be a dangerous analogy. Most film critics have never written a script. Does that mean they can't express an informed opinion about the quality of a movie? The average moviegoer doesn't give a sh!t about how hard the cast and crew worked. All he wants is for the entertainment he selects to be worth his 10 bucks.

          If people don't understand how difficult it is to make it in some industries, then they're idiots. But they still expect results. As they should.
          Last edited by Rantanplan; 02-10-2013, 09:01 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

            Let's face it, standards are changing. Great writing has taken a back seat to marketability, in all facets of literature. In the 1920's, unless you wrote like Leo Tolstoy, you'd never make it. But look at today. E.L. james is the biggest author out there. I mean, really? E.L. James? Her writing is so... E.L. James? REALLY???

            It's the American dream. Write like a wannabe Stephanie Myers or a book club high-schooler about a hot topic, make millions, smack Tolstoy and his literary genius in the face. This is America afterall. ANYONE can be a literary giant if it sells.
            I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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            • #21
              Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

              Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
              Write like a wannabe Stephanie Myers or a book club high-schooler about a hot topic, make millions, smack Tolstoy and his literary genius in the face. This is America afterall. ANYONE can be a literary giant if it sells.
              If it were that easy to write like Stephanie Myers and make millions, you'd think more people would be doing it. The number of people who are so principled that they'd give up millions to avoid contributing more fluff to the marketplace are... few.
              QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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              • #22
                Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                An article that illuminates the development process:

                http://thebitterscriptreader.blogspo...on-studio.html

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                • #23
                  Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                  Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                  I find that to be a dangerous analogy.
                  I don't find it "dangerous" to think that people who do something for a living might be, on average, better at that job than people who don't work in that field.

                  YMMV.

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                  • #24
                    Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                    Originally posted by Why One View Post
                    An article that illuminates the development process:

                    http://thebitterscriptreader.blogspo...on-studio.html
                    And, not to be forgotten one of the funniest explanations of the process I've ever read. From DD Pro's very own, WC Martell... Sex in a Submarine. If you haven't seen it you have to check it out.

                    http://sex-in-a-sub.blogspot.com/200...e-to-blog.html

                    hope this is OK to post....
                    " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                    • #25
                      Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                      Originally posted by Knaight View Post
                      If it were that easy to write like Stephanie Myers and make millions, you'd think more people would be doing it. The number of people who are so principled that they'd give up millions to avoid contributing more fluff to the marketplace are... few.
                      Yes, it takes a special kind of writer to write romantic drivel for 13 year olds. Writing like her is easy, it's the making millions part. Why does one pile of crap succeed over countless other piles of crap? Who knows, but it would make a great documentary.

                      After seeing that and Hunger games, I think all you truly need is a teenage love triangle and everything else in the story is free to suck balls.

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                      • #26
                        Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                        The basketball guy's name is Brian Scalabrine. He was the human victory cigar...meaning when he came into the game, his team had already won. That's not entirely fair because he did play useful minutes here and there and he played for a bunch of (good) teams over about 10 years. He destroyed the amateurs and semi-pros haters that took him on in a radio challenge after he retired.

                        I'll take that further and say I've played pick up basketball against quite a few college players and near pros and I don't care how much they played, how big they were, or what their specialty was on their college team, every single one of them could drive through a pick up game's defense and get to the rim and score any time they needed to.

                        I think this comparison, particularly the NBA, to aspiring screenwriters is apt. Aside from the guys that come up with money and create some vanity project movie from something they wrote, if you've written something that's been produced by someone else, you are light years ahead of all us suckers without any credits to our name.

                        I guess another way to look at it is, no one has ever made the pros by pointing out how much somebody else sucks. You make it by proving that you're better at it than the other guy.
                        On Twitter @DeadManSkipping

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                        • #27
                          Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                          I don't care how terrible a movie turns out to be, if you search for it, you can always figure out the reason for its existence and why people at some point in time got excited about throwing their money into it.
                          On Twitter @DeadManSkipping

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                          • #28
                            Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                            Originally posted by Mossbraker View Post
                            Yes, it takes a special kind of writer to write romantic drivel for 13 year olds. Writing like her is easy, it's the making millions part. Why does one pile of crap succeed over countless other piles of crap? Who knows, but it would make a great documentary.

                            After seeing that and Hunger games, I think all you truly need is a teenage love triangle and everything else in the story is free to suck balls.
                            Sounds like a terrific career plan. Write sh!t and cross your fingers it makes you as successful or as rich as Stephanie Meyer.

                            Or I could just play the lottery and save myself months/years of bashing keys.

                            Think I have life figured out.

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                            • #29
                              Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                              Originally posted by Mossbraker View Post
                              Yes, it takes a special kind of writer to write romantic drivel for 13 year olds. Writing like her is easy, it's the making millions part. Why does one pile of crap succeed over countless other piles of crap? Who knows, but it would make a great documentary.

                              After seeing that and Hunger games, I think all you truly need is a teenage love triangle and everything else in the story is free to suck balls.
                              Alternate theory: you value different things than the huge portion of the global population that loves Twilight and Hunger Games. Because of this, you lack the critical ability to look at a large set of teenage love stories and identify which stories will have mass cultural appeal to that audience and which won't. As a writer, you don't like the feeling of not having any meaningful insight into an entire segment of pop culture, so you just label it all as crap that's easy to write if someone wanted to. Someone such as yourself, who is clearly more talented (by your own definition, naturally) than the hacks who are making millions.

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                              • #30
                                Re: This is where the comparison with the NBA falls short

                                Originally posted by Mossbraker View Post
                                Yes, it takes a special kind of writer to write romantic drivel for 13 year olds. Writing like her is easy, it's the making millions part. Why does one pile of crap succeed over countless other piles of crap? Who knows, but it would make a great documentary.
                                Alternate theory:

                                Maybe, just maybe...

                                And stay with me on this, because it's a difficult concept to grasp...

                                Maybe...

                                ...

                                Are you ready for this...?

                                Maybe...

                                ....

                                She wrote something that millions of people would like.

                                Boom! Twist!

                                Gasp...

                                I know, crazy, right?!!!

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