Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    Originally posted by Manchester View Post
    Yes, interesting. And like the good Dr., I am intrigued by the factoid that 86% of the scripts that were downloaded had not been rated (assuming I read the data correctly).

    Not that this is a compelling number, but I am nevertheless interested... Among the unrated scripts being downloaded, are they rather even across all genres? For example, is an unrated comedy more/less likely to be downloaded than an unrated drama?

    Are the loglines shown in the pdf the user-created loglines or reader-created loglines?

    The logline for "Four on the Floor" is rather interesting: "When a small-time con man must vacate dodge, he forces his rock band on the road for some big time surprises!" All I get from that is (1) con-man, (2) a rock band, (3) a comedic road trip. IOW, no stakes, no challenge/antagonist, no goal. This feeds my hypothesis-in-progress: That loglines work sometimes simply by describing what sort of story it is - Hey, might I interest you in a roadtrip comedy about a con-man and his rock band?

    Now, maybe "Four on the Floor" made the top-download list because it had a 9 or 10 score - i.e., in spite of its "incomplete" logline (so to speak). Or, maybe it's a perfect logline and I just don't see that.

    One stat that I especially liked: The "component" with the highest mean score is "Premise" - 5.57.

    I do wonder if pros have been scoring scripts - both scripts that have/haven't rec'd paid-reader scores.
    I think there's a bit of confusion. The 86% refers to the percentage of scripts that were downloaded by industry professional but did not yet yield a rating from that industry professional. Try to address some theories on this in my answer above. Let em know if for whatever reason it's not clear.

    Loglines shown in the word cloud are user-submitted.

    Comment


    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Franklin:

      Thanks for publishing the numbers... it's great to see some of this info... a couple of suggestions...

      You show stats for industry downloads by genre...

      Those numbers might provide more meaningful data if you also provided the genre breakdown for uploads... or the downloads as a percentage of the uploaded scripts within a given genre...

      Another interesting stat to see would be the averages and / or mean of downloads per script... so that the numbers aren't skewed by one particularly "hot" script getting downloaded 50 times within a particular genre.

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
        I think the 13.9% rating rate is a few things. Most industry professionals aren't able to read a script immediately after download so it's possible that they've downloaded them with the intent to read and haven't yet read (and therefore can't legitimately rate.) I think it's also possible that industry pros are still warming up to the idea of rating scripts in this way.

        Personally, I'm happy with this initial rate of rating (please inexcuse the awkward turn of phrase) though I'd obviously like to get it higher.
        It will be interesting to see how this stat evolves. If it stays low it will mean that scripts that don't pay for a read will have little visibility, if I've understood correctly how your service works. One could try to get downloads on the strength of the logline alone but, if people don't rate it after they've downloaded and read it, the script will likely stay hidden among thousands of other scripts.

        Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
        The difficulty here though is that incentivizing the rating of scripts also incentivizes people to rate scripts that they may not have read yet. As a matter of process, it's far more important to me that all those people who do rate have, in fact, read the script than it is that everyone rates a script they've downloaded whether they've read it or not. If you have suggestions for how to incentivize specifically everyone who reads a script rating it (as opposed to just those who have downloaded it), I'm all ears.
        (I take it that you meant to write "as opposed to those who just have downloaded it"; otherwise, I'm comfused.)

        I don't think you need to motivate people to rate, really; they should be the ones interested in rating so they can profit more from the service. If the percentage of rated downloads stays low, you might need to make them aware that rating will improve the quality of the lists and help them find suitable scripts and writers.

        But it's only the fist month, so we'll see how it evolves. You make a good point about how it's likely that a lot of people haven't had the time yet to read the scripts they've downloaded.

        Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
        As for the number of downloads, all of the top 10 have at least 19 downloads and as you move up the list it quickly grows to several dozen. My instinct here too is that once a script is downloaded it may be shared offline (either within a company or amongst a network of friends.) We explicitly do not condone that behavior, but having worked in the business, I'm very aware that it happens. Consequently, the hard number of downloads is not necessarily reflective of the exposure a script has received.
        Yes, I understand that; personally, if it was my script that was being passed around, I wouldn't quite complain.

        Those are impressive numbers, from 19 to several dozens. Although I think that, as a prospective user, I'd like to know the number of downloads for all scripts rated over 7 or 8, to get a clearer idea of the kind of exposure you provide.


        It's early days, but it all looks very promising. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

        Comment


        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Is is possible to know how many of the scripts were promoted directly to industry pros by e-mail from BL? I understand there's a weekly e-mail with top rated scripts, but also perhaps other e-mail alerts relative to genre and other criteria, is that correct?

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          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
            I think there's a bit of confusion.
            Well, I anticipated that possibility - "(assuming I read the data correctly)". And I've never been good reading more than 2 data points on one bar in a graph.

            Page 2 says there were 1115 scripts uploaded. Page 5 says that 995 scripts were downloaded by pros. Is that 995 scripts out of the 1115 scripts? Or is that 995 downloads of scripts (i.e., gross downloads, which includes multi-downloads of a single script)?

            And from the bar graph at the top of page 5, it appears there were approximately 825 paid reads. Does that mean 825 scripts rec'd paid reads or there were 825 reads, some of which were of a single script - i.e., <825 scripts rec'd paid reads?

            And, does that bar chart on page 5 show how many scripts were dl'd even though they didn't have a paid read?

            PS: If any of those questions asks for info you don't want to share (i.e., secret sauce, etc.), fine.

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            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Just added my script last night. Didn't purchase any read reviews yet. I have 9 impressions and 1 download as of an hour ago.

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              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                I find it interesting that of the 995 scripts downloaded by industry professionals, only 13.9% were rated afterwards by them (that's 138 rated and 857 not rated.) What do you make of this?

                It would be interesting to know how many downloads got each of the top rated scripts, and the average of downloads per script overall. To me, this would be the most telling stat with regard to the success of the service, more than how many writers are signed or have their scripts bought or optioned.
                I agree. Plus with 138 rated scripts, the top rated script "McCarthy" captured almost 20% of the ratings (25 ratings plus one paid review).
                All the best,
                Lee
                __________________________________
                I'm not just a screenwriter...
                I also write and illustrate picture books!

                Comment


                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                  Page 2 says there were 1115 scripts uploaded. Page 5 says that 995 scripts were downloaded by pros. Is that 995 scripts out of the 1115 scripts? Or is that 995 downloads of scripts (i.e., gross downloads, which includes multi-downloads of a single script)?
                  I would think that would be gross downloads.

                  Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                  And from the bar graph at the top of page 5, it appears there were approximately 825 paid reads. Does that mean 825 scripts rec'd paid reads or there were 825 reads, some of which were of a single script - i.e., <825 scripts rec'd paid reads?
                  I believe elsewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there were writers who purchased up to seven reads.
                  All the best,
                  Lee
                  __________________________________
                  I'm not just a screenwriter...
                  I also write and illustrate picture books!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    I uploaded my action/adventure spec Templar last Saturday and got a review back today. 8/10 for premise, 7/10 for everything else; was hoping for better.

                    I'm a bit taken aback at some of the comments though, because it appears the reader didn't read closely enough.

                    For example, this was the logline he/she gave:
                    "When the Templars are executed by the French government, one knight survives, and returns to his city to exact revenge for the deaths of his brothers."

                    That's not the story at all. He doesn't exact vengeance on anyone.

                    "Azura's relationship with Faustin unfolds too fortuitously to be believable, between their encounter at the shore and sudden reintroduction at Faustin's jail cell for the mission."

                    They're not reintroduced at a jail cell, they're reintroduced at a cystercian abbey.

                    I understand that the guys at BL have a lot of scripts to read but for $50 is it unreasonable to expect something more than an apparent skim read?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      Originally posted by LFGabel View Post
                      Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                      And from the bar graph at the top of page 5, it appears there were approximately 825 paid reads. Does that mean 825 scripts rec'd paid reads or there were 825 reads, some of which were of a single script - i.e., <825 scripts rec'd paid reads?
                      I would think that would be gross downloads.
                      I hope that's not true. Let's say that I have a website with 1000 scripts. 999 of them are crap, one of them is Pulp Fiction. 1000 people come to my site and each of them downloads Pulp Fiction; there are no other downloads. I wouldn't say that 1000 scripts were downloaded from my site.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        Great data sets. I have just a few thoughts --

                        1. Top Scripts vs. Larger Pool Is it possible to see these same breakdowns (genre, story metrics and industry downloads) for scripts ranked 8-10 separately from everything else?

                        2. Genre. Is it possible to see the genres of paid reads (excluding duplicates) and total uploads for 'top scripts.' This would give us a better understanding of what scripts are getting read versus what we are writing. Also, there isn't a single industry download for Western, yet it's on two of the top loglines. Is this a sub-genre category?

                        3. Story Metrics. In it's current form these are great, but if we can see them for 'top scripts' it would provide an aggregate for what your readers/Hollywood value most (premise, plot, characters or dialogue). Obviously the scripts ranked 8 and higher incorporate all of these things very well, but this could provide a valuable tool of where we as writers should focus our time.

                        Franklin, re the 86% of users who download scripts but don't rate them, would there be anyway to put in a reminder say 2-3 weeks or a month later, reminding them that they haven't rated X,Y,Z scripts? Also, are some users downloading large amounts of scripts, but not rating them? One way to deal with that is capping the number of downloads until they've rated some of the scripts.
                        "Write every day. Don't quit. The rest is all bullshit." - Brian Koppelman

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                          I uploaded my action/adventure spec Templar last Saturday and got a review back today. 8/10 for premise, 7/10 for everything else; was hoping for better.

                          I'm a bit taken aback at some of the comments though, because it appears the reader didn't read closely enough.

                          For example, this was the logline he/she gave:
                          "When the Templars are executed by the French government, one knight survives, and returns to his city to exact revenge for the deaths of his brothers."

                          That's not the story at all. He doesn't exact vengeance on anyone.

                          "Azura's relationship with Faustin unfolds too fortuitously to be believable, between their encounter at the shore and sudden reintroduction at Faustin's jail cell for the mission."

                          They're not reintroduced at a jail cell, they're reintroduced at a cystercian abbey.

                          I understand that the guys at BL have a lot of scripts to read but for $50 is it unreasonable to expect something more than an apparent skim read?
                          I haven't read the script of course, but it sounds like a small location detail to misquote. I've had people read scripts and tell me they didn't like it because so and so happened, even though nothing of the sort ever took place. I just took it to mean my script wasn't clear enough and tried to give the areas they misunderstood more clarity.

                          Way I see it, it sucks if the paid notes you receive miss details, but the person is probably paying more attention than the producer etc who's trying to decide if they should pay you for letting them read it.

                          Just my thought process.
                          @ZOlkewicz - Don't follow me on Twitter.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                            I uploaded my action/adventure spec Templar last Saturday and got a review back today. 8/10 for premise, 7/10 for everything else; was hoping for better.

                            I'm a bit taken aback at some of the comments though, because it appears the reader didn't read closely enough.

                            For example, this was the logline he/she gave:
                            "When the Templars are executed by the French government, one knight survives, and returns to his city to exact revenge for the deaths of his brothers."

                            That's not the story at all. He doesn't exact vengeance on anyone.

                            "Azura's relationship with Faustin unfolds too fortuitously to be believable, between their encounter at the shore and sudden reintroduction at Faustin's jail cell for the mission."

                            They're not reintroduced at a jail cell, they're reintroduced at a cystercian abbey.

                            I understand that the guys at BL have a lot of scripts to read but for $50 is it unreasonable to expect something more than an apparent skim read?
                            "Ha!-Ha!" ( in my Simpsons "laughing kid" voice)

                            No offense, just trying to lighten the mood. I could swear your post was a re-post that has been posted here over and over. Everyone is all for paying $50 until they don't get the scores they wanted.

                            I think somewhere along these discussions it had been determined that well written scripts that are engaging get closer attention from readers than scripts that are less engaging and are often skimmed. Don't think you can pay for an engaging read, your script either has it or it don't.

                            Would you rather have a refund or higher scores? One of those things you can work to improve. Or you can pay for more reads until you get a score you think you deserve. Do I smell a sucker about to get jacked for another 50 bones?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                              I hope that's not true. Let's say that I have a website with 1000 scripts. 999 of them are crap, one of them is Pulp Fiction. 1000 people come to my site and each of them downloads Pulp Fiction; there are no other downloads. I wouldn't say that 1000 scripts were downloaded from my site.
                              Dr. Vergerus asked the same question here a bit differently.

                              995 scripts were downloaded by Industry Professionals. That's a true statement but it's also gives an impression of something that isn't quite true.

                              The better question is how many unique scripts were downloaded by industry professionals?

                              You get an inkling about that number when you see that only 13.9% (138 scripts) were rated.

                              But again, you have to ask how many unique scripts received ratings and for each script, how many ratings did each receive? "McCarthy", the top script, has received 25 Industry Professional ratings so far (plus one paid).

                              I'd hazard a guess that less than 50 unique scripts were downloaded by Industry Professionals.
                              All the best,
                              Lee
                              __________________________________
                              I'm not just a screenwriter...
                              I also write and illustrate picture books!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Originally posted by JaGra View Post
                                Would you rather have a refund or higher scores?
                                I think a little more detail in the reviews would be nice. Not a lot, just a little.

                                For example the reader specifically says that the dialogue is "very well-written" but ends up scoring the dialogue as a 7. Just one sentence giving me a sense of what didn't work would be helpful.

                                Same deal with the characters. The reader says, " All characters have well-developed emotions and motivations" and gives the characters a 7 as well. A quick word on what could be better would be nice.

                                If my script had gotten 4's and 5's, I wouldn't bother, I'd just take it down and forget about it. But I think scripts that score in the 7-8 range should get more detailed reviews so the writers know how they can get it up to the 9-10 range.

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