Another "we see" question - seriously

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  • Another "we see" question - seriously

    When it comes to "we see", I am in the group of people who prefer to avoid/write-around it if there is a another way to write the action with comparable clarity.

    At present, the troublesome part reads as follows:

    Code:
    OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS
    
    Stars twinkle.  Strangely, a small circle of them disappears, then this circle
    of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
    us.  The asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see
    
    The red planet Mars rise into view.
    The "tilt down" and "rise into view" are obviously fudges - i.e., tilting down makes Mars seem to rise into view. Addendum: And, I suppose "tilt down" raises the "don't direct the camera" question, as well.

    In any event, I tried writing around "we" and "us" but it required more words and non-colloquial syntax - and, it seemed less clear.

    Suggestions for getting rid of the 1st person plural? Or, should I just go with (a version of) this?

    BTW, if this were on page 37 of my script I'd be less concerned, but it's on page 2 - where readers' judgements can be more harsh.
    Last edited by Manchester; 09-27-2011, 10:59 AM. Reason: camera direction issue

  • #2
    Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

    Go with "we see" every time if it's clearer/quicker than alternatives. Your bias against "we see" is unfounded; you shouldn't be worrying about this at all.

    -

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

      Originally posted by Manchester View Post
      When it comes to "we see", I am in the group of people who prefer to avoid/write-around it if there is a another way to write the action with comparable clarity.

      At present, the troublesome part reads as follows:

      Code:
      OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS
      
      Stars twinkle.  Strangely, a small circle of them disappears, then this circle
      of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
      us.  The asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see
      
      The red planet Mars rise into view.
      The "tilt down" and "rise into view" are obviously fudges - i.e., tilting down makes Mars seem to rise into view.

      In any event, I tried writing around "we" and "us" but it required more words and non-colloquial syntax - and, it seemed less clear.

      Suggestions for getting rid of the 1st person plural? Or, should I just go with (a version of) this?

      BTW, if this were on page 37 of my script I'd be less concerned, but it's on page 2 - where readers' judgements can be more harsh.
      Manchester,

      You are the prime example of why people have a bias against "We see" when there shouldn't be any. You wrote this where you don't need a "We see."


      OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS

      Stars twinkle. Strangely, a small circle of them disappears, then this circle
      of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
      us. The asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see

      The red planet Mars rise into view.

      Stars twinkle. Strangely, a small circle of them disappears. Then this circle of darkness grows until--

      A MASSIVE ASTEROID HURLS TOWARD US.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

        What Ham said.

        This is another one of those cases where it seems random to put in "we see." I don't understand why the one sentence is singled out.

        OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS
        We see stars twinkle. Strangely, we see a small circle of them disappears, then we see this circle
        of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
        us. We see the asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see
        The red planet Mars rise into view, and we see it. We totally fvxcking see it.
        or


        OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS
        Stars twinkle.
        There's a dark patch as a small circle of them disappears. It grows...
        A massive asteroid approaches, blocking the star field, growing in size. It passes by, and behind it...

        The red planet Mars.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

          First and foremost, thanks for the comments and the suggestions.

          Ham, if I'm going to be an example, I do prefer to be "the prime example" (unless "choice" is on sale this week), so thanks as well for that accolade!

          In the scene after this one, scientists back at mission control discuss what they just saw via the satellite that is orbiting Mars. The satellite had tilted up for a look at the asteroid as it flew by - the scene starts after the tilt-up. The asteroid passes, then the satellite tilts back down to Mars - so it appears as if Mars is rising. But until the scene at mission control, I don't want to reference the satellite.

          Joe, assuming your comment "I don't understand why the one sentence is singled out" was not just rhetorical, here was my reasoning: I used "until... we see" as in "until we realize" or "until it becomes apparent that". It's that what initially appeared to be a group of stars somehow disappearing is actually the result of an asteroid zooming at us, eclipsing our view of the stars. The only effect of the zooming asteroid is its effect on what we can and do see.

          IOW, if the action had started with the asteroid, I would not have written, "We see an asteroid flying at us."

          Again, thanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

            I don't think you need the 'we see', and I'm not sure why you're worried about mentioning the satellite or not. We'll know that it's a satellite when the scientists start looking at pictures, and mentioning the satellite.

            It's an image, and nothing more; an image we've seen multiple times in multiple movies, by the way. Just get on with the story.

            I'd go with Ham's example, or close to it.

            HH

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

              Oh, sorry. Didn't mean it to sound as harsh as it sounded.

              I meant that the way you used "We see" is exactly why people find that superfluous. Generally those who come to the boards to show examples of "We see" tend to show bad examples.

              I could show plenty of bad dialogue, bad action, bad character names. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't use them. So any "We see" issue is self-paranoia. That being said, your example, as people pointed out, was not the best way to convey the image you had in your mind. Sometimes, "We see" is the way to go. Sometimes not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                I'm gonna disagree here. For sure you can write the scene without "WE SEE" but if you could truly comprehend how much no one gives the slightest fraction of a fvck, you wouldn't care.

                However, I will tell you what is glaring to me about the example.

                You write --

                "
                OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS

                Stars twinkle. Strangely, a small circle of them disappears, then this circle
                of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
                us. The asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see


                It's the "there's" that follows your first "WE SEE" that is killing me. Cut the "there's" and then reread the following post seven times...

                Originally posted by Paul Striver View Post
                Go with "we see" every time if it's clearer/quicker than alternatives. Your bias against "we see" is unfounded; you shouldn't be worrying about this at all.

                -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                  Btw, we have a friend who is an A-List writer, and a damn good one, who has a big movie coming out. People actually rattled him in criticizing his script, saying he used "WE SEE" too much.

                  Everyone was like 'dude, what does writing without WE SEE get you?' At best the exact same place as using them does.

                  These "people" of course were "people" who never have and never will make movies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                    Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                    ... However, I will tell you what is glaring to me about the example.
                    For me it's the fact that in Outer Space stars don't twinkle.
                    "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                    - Clive Barker, Galilee

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                      Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
                      I don't think you need the 'we see', and I'm not sure why you're worried about mentioning the satellite or not. We'll know that it's a satellite when the scientists start looking at pictures, and mentioning the satellite.

                      It's an image, and nothing more; an image we've seen multiple times in multiple movies, by the way. Just get on with the story.

                      I'd go with Ham's example, or close to it.

                      HH
                      Agreed. If I read another "We see" in a script, I'm going to curse up a ****-storm...
                      "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

                      "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                        Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
                        Agreed. If I read another "We see" in a script, I'm going to curse up a ****-storm...
                        Just to clarify, I don't necessarily have a problem with 'we see'--the writer can use whatever he or she feels--but I just don't think it's necessary in this particular case.

                        HH

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                          Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                          When it comes to "we see", I am in the group of people who prefer to avoid/write-around it if there is a another way to write the action with comparable clarity.

                          At present, the troublesome part reads as follows:

                          Code:
                          OUTER SPACE - A SEA OF STARS
                          
                          Stars twinkle.  Strangely, a small circle of them disappears, then this circle
                          of darkness grows until... We see there's a massive asteroid flying towards
                          us.  The asteroid fills our view then just passes by and we tilt down to see
                          
                          The red planet Mars rise into view.
                          The "tilt down" and "rise into view" are obviously fudges - i.e., tilting down makes Mars seem to rise into view. Addendum: And, I suppose "tilt down" raises the "don't direct the camera" question, as well.

                          In any event, I tried writing around "we" and "us" but it required more words and non-colloquial syntax - and, it seemed less clear.

                          Suggestions for getting rid of the 1st person plural? Or, should I just go with (a version of) this?

                          BTW, if this were on page 37 of my script I'd be less concerned, but it's on page 2 - where readers' judgements can be more harsh.
                          No offense, but the whole thing reads a little clumsy to me. I don't think it requires a "we see" or camera directions. Keep it simple with something like:

                          OUTER SPACE

                          An asteroid explodes out from a vast sea of stars, grows increasingly massive as it hurtles forward, closes in, then blasts past a giant red planet.
                          "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                            When there's a problem with writing that includes the use of "we see", it's not the "we see" that matters, it's the other stuff. In the OP sample there are things I would do differently, but none of them involve the "we see".

                            Never make the mistake of believing that it's the "we see" part that causes problems.
                            "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                              Maybe the Admins could create a subforum of "About the Craft" called "The Definitive Answer about 'We see'". It would contain exactly one post, thread locked, bronzed, dipped in carbonite, reading:


                              WE SEE:
                              People who matter don't care about it. People who care about it don't matter.
                              ==========

                              Comment

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