Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

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  • #76
    Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

    Originally posted by maralyn View Post
    na, you can't just change a couple of words, or hold onto things like that. You and your reps are a team. And you should fight and resolve your battles with them before you put the script up for sale. To be scurrying behind their backs being weird and intense over some previous opening sequence...that'll just make you all look like numbskulls.

    You have to move forward together. And work thru whatever you have to work thru to get to that.

    And something that I was told very early on, DON"T give them options. You give them the script the way it needs to be. You, as the captain of th script-ship, need to cover everybody's back.

    A. I was teasing!

    B. I agree with you.

    C. If it were me I'd be so grateful for the chance I'd do anything they asked as long as it wasn't insane. The last time I was asked -- very strongly 'ASKED' -- to change what I thought was unchangeable, I sucked it up, changed it, and ended up with something much, much better. Having a reputation as a reasonable writer who can work as a team player will not only get you more work, it'll make you a better writer. Not a wuss, not a hard-ass... just a really good, dependable WRITER!

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    • #77
      Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

      Originally posted by suzeaa View Post

      C. If it were me I'd be so grateful for the chance I'd do anything they asked as long as it wasn't insane. The last time I was asked -- very strongly 'ASKED' -- to change what I thought was unchangeable, I sucked it up, changed it, and ended up with something much, much better. Having a reputation as a reasonable writer who can work as a team player will not only get you more work, it'll make you a better writer. Not a wuss, not a hard-ass... just a really good, dependable WRITER!
      Most of you seem to ignore that I've been incredibly reasonable. I went along with the majority of their changes. But you keep making this accusation as if it's ridiculous for me to feel this way about ONE note. That leads me to believe you guys are making any and all changes no matter what your reps say. And that's just wrong to me. It's an injustice to me and my work to not stand up to something I believe in.

      Ele...

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      • #78
        Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

        well, sure, stand up for something you believe in. I do it all the time. But what powerful statements do your opening pages make that need to be stood up for?

        I was under the impression that you just thought they were a bit fancy, rather than giving some deep insight into humanity.

        But I don't even want to get into this conversation. It depresses me. The way you think you're better than us.

        Talk to THEM.

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        • #79
          Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

          Originally posted by maralyn View Post

          But I don't even want to get into this conversation. It depresses me. The way you think you're better than us.
          How does that work?

          If you seriously think that defending myself against people who twist the facts of my situation is a declaration of me being better than you, then yes, I am better than you.

          Ele...

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          • #80
            Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

            Apart from some posts where it was suggested you should just suck it up regardless, many posts here offered ideas on how to talk to your reps to find a workable solution. Given the actual scene is pretty much a mystery, I think a lot of productive ideas came out of this thread - practical negotiating suggestions as well as some actual stuctural possibilities.

            You asked for opinions and you got a very broad range of responses. That's good, right? That's what you asked for?

            I'm sure you'll sort it out soon enough. Good luck with it.
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            • #81
              Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

              Originally posted by elephant1978 View Post
              Most of you seem to ignore that I've been incredibly reasonable. I went along with the majority of their changes. But you keep making this accusation as if it's ridiculous for me to feel this way about ONE note. That leads me to believe you guys are making any and all changes no matter what your reps say. And that's just wrong to me. It's an injustice to me and my work to not stand up to something I believe in.

              Ele...
              I'm not ignoring that... and if you knew me, you'd know that I am PASSIONATELY pro-writer. I've worked on my last script for over two years... HARD work, backed by so much research that readers swear this must be my biography (A huge flattery to me!). I know my subject better than many of the subjects themselves -- no kidding! -- so when someone suggests something from left field that I know is so, so wrong it's like a knife in the guts.

              The reality is, I believe -- and of course I could be wrong, but I've worked in another creative field for quite some time -- is that you have to earn your status first before you can be indignant about relatively small things -- and by 'small things' I mean ANYTHING!

              The thing is, especially now during a strike when just yesterday I read of many writers losing their deals -- you have to really choose your battles and ask yourself if each instance of a painful change is worth you looking good to the people trying to work with you or you looking good to yourself.

              The scenes you defend hard at this stage could end up so different once it goes through production it becomes a joke -- then the whole thing could end up on the floor in the editing room. Or the show isn't picked up anyway. Or something.

              Should you try for this particular scene to stay as is? Sure -- but not to the point where you end up damaging your position. Know your characters, know your story, so that when you're thrown a curve you can jump right over it and do even better.

              Let us know how it turns out. It sounds GREAT!

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              • #82
                Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                Frankly, I don't understand the fixation elephant1978 has on his particular story choice. This insistence upon opening a story with a minor character perhaps disguises some unconscious motive wrapped up in the fear of failure.

                That may be a generic problem for writers. But insisting on being right to such an obsessive extent blocks the learning process. By holding so doggedly onto your opinion, you suggest to others that they are in error, and you are not. It's best for writers not to think in those terms. Imagine if T.V. comedy writers fixated on their story ideas. That would be some boring writer's room, none of that great spirit of brainstorming and give-and-take, slapping the story around from all angles.

                Despite elephant's additional posts, I still think that the manager has the better story idea.

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                • #83
                  Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                  Originally posted by Farnsworth View Post
                  Frankly, I don't understand the fixation elephant1978 has on his particular story choice. This insistence upon opening a story with a minor character perhaps disguises some unconscious motive wrapped up in the fear of failure.

                  That may be a generic problem for writers. But insisting on being right to such an obsessive extent blocks the learning process. By holding so doggedly onto your opinion, you suggest to others that they are in error, and you are not. It's best for writers not to think in those terms. Imagine if T.V. comedy writers fixated on their story ideas. That would be some boring writer's room, none of that great spirit of brainstorming and give-and-take, slapping the story around from all angles.

                  Despite elephant's additional posts, I still think that the manager has the better story idea.
                  I don't think you can fairly say that the manager has the better story idea without seeing it executed both ways. We don't even know the story, so how can any of us possibly say which one is better?

                  I agree that you should at least try to execute it the way your reps want. Look at it objectively. If it really doesn't work, then show them.

                  I think some of you are coming down awfully hard on ele. Sometimes the writer's vision can be right, for godsakes.

                  "We're all immigrants now, man."
                  - Zia (Patrick Fugit), "Wristcutters: A Love Story"

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                  • #84
                    Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                    Originally posted by velysai View Post
                    I think some of you are coming down awfully hard on ele. Sometimes the writer's vision can be right, for godsakes.

                    "Right" seems like a strong word. Ele's vision might be better than his reps, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved with a different take.

                    At the same time, it feels like we've all talked this one to death.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                      and it's just a stoopid opening really who cares? He's not being asked to compromise his creativity at all. Both his reps think it should change, that's two thirds of the demographic.

                      Your creativity needs to be focussed on the reaction to your work or you're not writing, you're dibbling.

                      But I can relate to what Farnsworth is saying about sabotage. I used to do it a lot. If something was moving too fast, or I wasn't sure about who I was collaborating with. Altho I did it differently to ele, opposite really, I'd discourage them by saying awful things about the script. Like I didn't even like it myself. Like I was tryng to talk them out of it. Still, a dark cloud of sorts.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                        With my own personal experience with dealing with my reps and producers, I find that when they offer a suggestion that's different than my version, I realize that they are pinpointing to the right problem but not necessarily offering the right solution.

                        So who's correct in this ele vs. manager debate? Both or neither.

                        Perhaps what the writer needs to do is think of a solution that's not binary (Choice A or Choice B) but rather come up with a new take that addresses the problems with a fresh solution.
                        -------

                        I didn't have time to write a short script so I wrote a long one instead.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                          Originally posted by elephant1978 View Post
                          I've had others read it. They all think it's fine the way it is. I'm here to get more opinions on it.

                          Ele...
                          I don't understand why you're engaging in this protracted discussion. The fact is, without reading the pages and looking at the notes you've gotten, none of us can give you a truly valid opinion. You're providing limited information and then you're taking exception to the responses. Why bother? Maybe you just want to vent about your reps and would like to hear lots of reinforcing responses that give you permission to do this?

                          I don't know, of course. Anyway, the fact is, everyone in this equation can be short sighted, self absorbed, knee jerk, and downright unprofessional. Reps, execs, and writers, no one is above it.

                          Anyway, it sounds to me like you already dealt with it, i.e., tried to give them a new opening that addressed their note. So what's the problem? Did they dislike it?

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                          • #88
                            Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                            Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                            I don't understand why you're engaging in this protracted discussion. The fact is, without reading the pages and looking at the notes you've gotten, none of us can give you a truly valid opinion. You're providing limited information and then you're taking exception to the responses. Why bother? Maybe you just want to vent about your reps and would like to hear lots of reinforcing responses that give you permission to do this?
                            I started this thread to get advice on communicating with my reps in a piece of writing I believe in. It wasn't about the writing itself. It's about working with these people.

                            Ele...

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                            • #89
                              Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                              Originally posted by maralyn View Post
                              and it's just a stoopid opening really who cares? He's not being asked to compromise his creativity at all.
                              Do you even realize what you're saying?

                              Ele...

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                              • #90
                                Re: Disagreement with reps on a note -- need your opinions

                                We've just about beat this one to an inch of it's life. Ele has been given a lot of advice here. It's now up to him to react to the advice anyway he deems fit.

                                Lets move on...
                                Never let the competition know what you're thinking... and never tell the unseen masses your story idea.

                                -- Rule 85, Ferengi Rules of Acquisition (updated by cmmora)

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