The Artist

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  • #31
    Re: The Artist

    @Signal30, I get it. I think that allegory is pretty damn obvious. Again, it's a Hollywood problem, not a common person problem. And it's not presented in a way that makes me care.

    Essentially, there's nothing I can really take away from this film other than nice 'technique'.

    @the rest, I think my opinions on this movie have been pretty clear. and at this point, you're so shocked that I'm not moved by this film that some of you are implying I'm stupid. Fair enough. To each his/her own.

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    • #32
      Re: The Artist

      Originally posted by Tochirta View Post
      Again, it's a Hollywood problem, not a common person problem.

      ...you're so shocked that I'm not moved by this film that some of you are implying I'm stupid.
      We're shocked that your view of the film can be so skewed that it seems like you saw the trailer and made your judgments from that. Even a freaking logline for this story tells you that it's not a "Hollywood problem".

      It's not about talkies taking over silent films. That is not what this story is about! It's about a guy not being able to fall into the new fad and be accepted for who he is. It's a character problem. It's a human being problem. Anyone who does not understand this is in the wrong field.

      Do you think I would not care too much for Jaws because it's about fishing and I'm not a fisherman, but a commoner who cannot relate to "fishermen problems"?

      That's how ridiculous you sound.

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      • #33
        Re: The Artist

        Now's a good time to remind everyone that we're all entitled to our opinions, and disagreeing with someone doesn't justify personalising your attack.

        The film, btw, held no appeal to me based on the trailer, but the more you guys talk about it, the more convinced I am I should see it. It's just opening here so still plenty of time.
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        • #34
          Re: The Artist

          It opens in my town on Thursday and I'm really looking forward to it...I've been binging on pre-code films lately (in my opinion, one of the most transcendent periods of Hollywood), and I'm gonna be a bitch to please.

          But from what I've heard, I don't think that's gonna be a problem.
          "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

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          • #35
            Re: The Artist

            Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
            It's about a guy not being able to fall into the new fad and be accepted for who he is.
            No, Bio. It has nothing to do with a 'fad'. Talkies were not a 'fad'. They ARE movies as we know them. Unless you consider a fad lasting for 70+ years.

            This is a story about a person whose role becomes obsolete due to a technological advancement (for the better I might add). He does a job nobody cares for anymore because people expect more and he just isn't in a position to deliver. And others (like Pepy) are. So he falls by the wayside.

            I'm sorry, but I fail to see why I should give a damn about his 'plight'. Especially since he had pride/arrogance to begin with. and he's had the star limelight for a while, living the good life.

            My argument is that the context (silent films to talkies) is too specific to engage an audience universally, especially in the myopic and formulaic way the film tackles the dated subject.

            And what are the stakes exactly? that this man won't be the talk of the town anymore? who cares?!

            It's not like he has to struggle to win a girl's heart, and to do that, he has to conquer his darker tendencies - the girl loves him already. Deflated stakes.

            Essentially, his character flaw is externalized. The problem is technology / invention of sound. Not really HIM as a PERSON. Not his EMOTIONS or mistakes he made in the past coming to haunt him. But tech -- tech I might add that is a vast improvement and other good human beings are using. yawn...

            Now, if this is a story about how a field laborer can't complete with a new breed of machines, and is put out of the work which he takes pride in... then I can relate. Especially if he has to support his family and has no other discernible skills - he's been farming all his life.

            But this movie is too cutesy and nostalgic to really delve into a tale of redemption, which is what The Wrestler probably did much better. From the little I've seen in the trailer, the wrestler probably has emotional issues he has to deal with to become a better person. He wins the fight by struggling against his inner demons and straightening out mistakes he made in the past.

            what exactly are The Artist's inner demons?

            imo, if you really want the audience to believe in a character's redemption, the story has to go raw. the stakes have to be high. the story should be dark. Movies like this rely on you pitying the main character. Maybe you felt pity - I didn't.

            The movie wasn't dark or deep enough. It hit some of the typical "guy is depressed" beats (dude is drunk at the bar, dude lights his old work on fire), but the tone was just too light for me. The "i know tricks" dog saves him from a fire for crying out loud.

            so it felt predictable and basic, rather than raw and powerful (which is the only way I'd ever care about this story to begin with).

            I think I've been super clear about my dislike for this movie. If you still don't get what I'm saying, there's no point for me to speak on it any further.

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            • #36
              Re: The Artist

              I guess my previous comment about the whole "make way for the young" part of the story going way over your head also went way over your head.

              You have made your dislike for silent films very clear. We understand that. You harped about how talkies are better than silent films and how technology is the big roadblock and technology this and technology that...but this movie is not about the tech of films. At all. Not one scene. Watch it again and look for the scene in which technology prevents anyone from doing anything. You will not find such a scene.

              The argument you present is basically this: I cannot relate to a guy who is unable to understand new technology, and because this is the entire basis of the plot, I don't like the movie.

              First off, it is not technology that needs to be overcome, so we can remove that from the equation right now and keep it removed.

              Second, that is not the entire basis of the plot. Another comment I made prior (which, I suppose, hitched a ride over your head with the other one) is that the rise of talking pictures is actually a very minor part of the story. Yet you act as though that is the context of every scene. It's not. Watch the movie again.

              Once you realize this fact, you will then realize your error in assuming that the story is not universal enough for non-silent film stars in 2012 to relate to. A third comment I made prior (which also joined the over-your-head parade) is that this is a story about a *character*. What is at stake, you ask? The entire world, that's what! In character-driven films, it is the world in which the character inhabits. What happens if Randy The Ram doesn't get to wrestle again? Nothing. The rest of the world will go on, but *Randy's world*, the world of the film, the world we care about, will stop.

              The Artist is no different. It's George Valentin's world, and that world will end if he is not able to make films. It's his livelihood. It's everything he knows and everything he loves. All that is taken away by the woman he loves! She is having all the success ("make way for the young!") and living the life George once lived, and practically casts him aside for the new good-looking young bloke that she is seen with on several occasions.

              So to recap, those of us who saw the film with an open mind that was paying attention, he didn't have the girl.

              Getting back to the story, George is now a nobody - not because of technology, but because he's old news, he's not young, he's not the most popular star anymore, he loses the backing of his director, he can't make films on his own, and [spoiler] his voice is not suited for talkies, as we find out at the end. [end spoiler]

              All of this works in conjunction to turn this character's world upside-down, which creates universal conflict that even kids 100 years younger than the first talkie can appreciate and understand and relate to.

              Every conflict George goes through is universal. He wants wealth. He wants stardom. He wants fame. He wants the girl. He wants to be able to succeed. Even if he already had these things, he doesn't want to live the life of a nobody. He wants things to get better, not worse. He wants to work in a comfortable environment free of change. Nobody likes change. Change is the most universal fear next to the dark. How can you say this is not universal?

              It's strikingly obvious that you simply don't understand how and why this film works, but that is no excuse to write it off as empty or trite. There is so much to take away from this fantastic film, it's a shame that you don't get it. And it isn't 'not getting it' in a Terrence Malick or David Lynch sort of way, but in the most basic Hollywood storytelling for the screen sort of way.

              Oh well. I guess that's why movies like Friday the 13th part 17 and Scary Movie 8 exist. Suit yourself.

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              • #37
                Re: The Artist

                Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                That gimmick of debating is so out-dated, I can't relate to it.
                That made me LOL so hard.
                M.A.G.A.

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                • #38
                  Re: The Artist

                  Guys, what is this film about?

                  I've been trying to get a handle on it from the odd snippets I've seen to date, is it a satire, allegory, poem unlimited (just kidding..)

                  Is it in any way like a spin-off of Sunset Boulevard updated for the rapidity of technology in recent years vis-a-vis the fate of the actor?
                  Forthcoming: The Annual, "I JUST GOT DUMPED" Valentine's Short Screenplay Writing Competition. Keep an eye on Writing Exercises.

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                  • #39
                    Re: The Artist

                    Originally posted by Tochirta View Post
                    This is a story about a person whose role becomes obsolete due to a technological advancement (for the better I might add). He does a job nobody cares for anymore because people expect more and he just isn't in a position to deliver. And others (like Pepy) are. So he falls by the wayside.

                    I'm sorry, but I fail to see why I should give a damn about his 'plight'.
                    I would have thought that this is 100% relevant today.

                    It's the crisis that most of us have. You are good at writing feature length screenplays? Shame that entertainment is changing and that short form entertainment is getting more popular.

                    You are good at programming in COBOL? Sorry - you aren't in a position to deliver the newer languages.

                    As someone who writes code for a living ... but isn't that much into Web-based projects I can *REALLY* identify with this.

                    Mac
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                    • #40
                      Re: The Artist

                      ^Mac, I could relate if you're a guy who hasn't had the success yet. and then it changes on you.

                      But this dude has lived the high life. He's had his time in the sun. And now it's gone (rightfully). What's to feel sorry about?

                      know what i mean? Bottom line, I didn't feel pity for this dude. Not once.

                      and Bio, your entire post screams "you're an idiot, I'm Bio." Which tells me you're so busy being condescending that you're not actually reading what I'm saying and responding directly to it.

                      it's funny you mention Scary Movie 8. This movie is Scary Movie 8 for the cinephile community imo. Both movies have equally thin, predictable plots and stock characters. Like Transformers, it has dog tricks to lighten the mood and elicit a few laughs. Like Scary movie, it's a sequel of sorts to Sunset Boulevard and Singin in the Rain - subject matter is not new. I get the same 'meh' feeling leaving the theater. Except this one has faux-depth with its homage to silent films.

                      anyway, you loved the movie. I didn't. You have your reasons. I have my reasons. we'll leave it at that.

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                      • #41
                        Re: The Artist

                        Originally posted by Tochirta View Post
                        it's funny you mention Scary Movie 8. This movie is Scary Movie 8 for the cinephile community imo. Both movies have equally thin, predictable plots and stock characters. Like Transformers, it has dog tricks to lighten the mood and elicit a few laughs.
                        This sort of made my brain hurt. It's like comparing The Passion of the Christ to Hostel because of the focus on torture.

                        But also...how does would "thin, predictable plots and stock characters" make it suffer in comparison to 99.9% of Hollywood output?
                        "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

                        My YouTube channel.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The Artist

                          Originally posted by Signal30 View Post
                          It opens in my town on Thursday and I'm really looking forward to it...I've been binging on pre-code films lately (in my opinion, one of the most transcendent periods of Hollywood), and I'm gonna be a bitch to please.
                          For my money, one of the most fascinating periods in American film history.

                          Not only could you make the argument that the Catholic Church was just as afraid of immorality in films as they were the prospect of female theater-goers getting inspired by the women they saw being portrayed as being independent and strong-minded (thus upsetting the patriarchal society the church had spent centuries enforcing), but you could also say that the censorship of the Hay's Code, while not a good thing, was in the end kind of a mixed blessing, because without it we never would have had Screwball comedy or Film Noir or writers being forced to be more clever than their keepers.

                          Just fascinating. Nothing old or out-dated about it.


                          Back on topic, I don't think anyone should have gone into seeing this film without expecting what they got. The New York Times said:

                          "Though its protagonist mourns the arrival of sound, The Artist itself is more interested in celebrating the range and power of a medium that can sparkle, swoon and suffer so beautifully that it doesn’t really need to have anything to say."

                          They describe the protagonist as a "carefree narcissist" who falls "into professional ruin brought about by his stubborn refusal to change with the times."

                          Sounds like some of the same criticism I heard here, except they also called it one of the best films of the year.

                          (although I am still trying to figure out the analogies about 45's and typewriters)

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                          • #43
                            Re: The Artist

                            Finally, a film for deaf people. Now I can take my mother to the cinema, although she'd probably complain that there aren't any subtitles

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                            • #44
                              Re: The Artist

                              Originally posted by Tochirta View Post
                              and Bio, your entire post screams "you're an idiot, I'm Bio." Which tells me you're so busy being condescending that you're not actually reading what I'm saying and responding directly to it.
                              Says the guy who missed everything I said and then missed when I said he missed it.

                              But that's okay. This film is not for everyone. Doesn't really appeal to people who don't have a rudimentary understanding of how storytelling for the screen works.

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                              • #45
                                Re: The Artist

                                Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                                Doesn't really appeal to people who don't have a rudimentary understanding of how storytelling for the screen works.
                                Or who prefer sound. I mean, the f#ck are you talking about?

                                We're 80+ years out of the silent film era. People not wanting to see a silent film aren't ignorant to "how storytelling for the screen works."

                                They're moviegoers. And they have the right to not see films that don't appeal to them. Whatever the reason may be.

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