TV program creator. What credits are fair?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

    Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
    KitchonaSteve, I think you meant "Burn Notice", not Person of Interest, right?
    Right you are Professor. I caught my mistake just before I saw your post.

    Note To Self: Always check credits before hitting "Submit Reply".
    Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

    -Steve Trautmann
    3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

      To the OP...

      What's so great about all of this, no matter who your attorney is or who you end up dealing with to buy your show, is that if you get an offer you're free to counter and negotiate and ask for anything you want. It's your property. It happens all the time.

      And they are free to say, no. And you can counter and at some point, as the person who actually signs the contract, you make the final decision whether you'll sign or not. You're free to walk away if you don't get what you want. As they are free to walk away if you ask for too much. (By the way, they do walk away and don't look back when they've had enough.)

      You've argued every logical point from these experienced pros who have laid the truth squarely out in front of you. You want what you want, obviously, and damn what happens in reality. So... when the time comes, go get it. Tell the producers, production execs, and network people what you expect title wise. Then look at their final offer, which I believe will be nowhere near what you want for an untested new writer, and either sign it or walk away. No matter what anyone in the business says... those are your only options in the end.

      I've actually walked away from 3 contracts in the past because I could not sign them for various reasons. 2 of the producers came back and compromised. One didn't. And that's the chance you take. That they won't come back. It's your property and your career and you get to ask for anything you want. And as I said before, they get to say, no.

      Nothing in this business happens fast and you pay your dues. You do the hard work, each time showing people you're ready for the next step. There's too much money involved for them to do it any other way.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

        ProfessorChomp said:

        Michaelino, the "I won't serve at the heels of the masters" attitude is very popular among writers angrily typing away at Starbucks at noon."

        Nice try, but I'm not a Starbucks type of guy. You could try again... Yes, I am prepared to concede on certain matters, but you have to understand, doing Stepford just isn't my kind of thing...
        Paragraphs three and four though appreciated.


        Thanks for the other replies though folks. All taken on board.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

          Originally posted by michaellino202 View Post
          Ronaldinho says
          "Yes. This is true. The fact that you don't seem to understand the difference between this and what you were arguing earlier is concerning."

          Unfortunately sir, you still don't get what I am trying to say. I understand the difference very clearly. But every time I say something, you misinterpret my words and state that I am saying something else... If ever Wallman's comments about reading and comprehension made any sense, perhaps this just might be the one case...
          When all of the pros in this thread are disagreeing with you, I mean, I suppose it's possible that we're all misreading you - but it's much more likely that you're not writing what you think you're writing.

          "You have been arguing that the causality goes the other way. "Write a lot of episodes -> e.p. title."

          I'm not saying it is an automatic right.
          It's not about whether it's "automatic" or not. That causal arrow simple DOES NOT EXIST. Not ever. Not for anyone. The reason people who write a lot of episodes have an EP title is because of the causality flowing IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

          Nobody has argued that it is coincidence. The fact that you're suggesting that it is means, quite clearly, that you're either incompetent or have reading comprehension issues.



          You said
          "No, you don't get a vanity credit just for being famous or well-known."
          and continued
          "Sometimes you get a vanity credit for being a big name who is starring in the show."

          These two points are exactly the same, and if you didn't see that, my apologies, as this is what I meant.
          No, they are not the same - and this is important.

          Because the star of a show has a tremendous amount of input on the shape and director of the show. The star of the show is OFTEN a producer not just in name, but in deed. If they don't want the show to go in a certain direction, it doesn't go in that direction.

          There's a show that's been in the trades recently which recently demonstrated this very clearly when the star got a second set of writers - including the show runner - fired. I could actually tell you a couple of stories from the set of that show, but I won't, out of professional courtesy to the people involved.

          That's not a "vanity" credit - that's a credit which accurately reflects the creative power and control exercised by the star.

          I got to admit, Wallman and yourself... It's either your way or the high way.
          It's not "my way." It's the way the business works, as I've seen and experienced, working in it for 15+ years.

          If they don't care what work you do, they would not have taken up the creator's concept or pilot in the first place.
          Quite the contrary. It's very common for a creator to be paired with a showrunner, and then to have the creator shunted aside. The network and studio are invested in the showrunner, not the creator. With any conflict between the two, they will side with the showrunner.

          This literally happens all the time. Now, they would probably prefer that the showrunner and creator get along, because that means that things are progressing smoothly, but many, many creators have been told that their services are not required in the writers room, and they can take their credit (and their 2+ years of guaranteed producers fees) and stay home.

          Anyway - since you've repeatedly demonstrated an inability to follow along when professionals are taking a lot of care to try to explain the faults in your reasoning, this will be my last response to you in this thread. I'll close with a word of warning:

          Not that I think you're likely to have this problem, but the creators who get shoved off of their shows are often people who stubbornly dig in when a more experienced professional (like their show-runner) tries to gently explain to them how things work.

          In this business, the people involved in making your show aren't going to explain things to you multiple times. When you clearly don't get it and repeatedly argue with people who are trying to help and educate you, they're going to move on.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

            michaellino202 - how do you feel about using "we see" in your writing?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

              The latest episode of 3rd & Fairfax is available and, as promised, there's a discussion of credits and showrunning; it starts at about the 20 minute mark, but the whole thing is worth a listen if you can handle course language, strong opinions, and a healthy dose of "room banter."

              Follow the link in my signature... IF YOU DARE!!!!!!
              Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

              -Steve Trautmann
              3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

                Ronaldinho said:
                "The fact that you're suggesting that it is means, quite clearly, that you're either incompetent or have reading comprehension issues."

                From your time in the industry, this kind of vocabulary clearly tells me you have one massive chip on your shoulder.

                I am willing to accept the fact at times I can be wrong, but unfortunately, there will always be writers who have stated they been in the business a few years, and seem to think they can start preaching about righteousness and talk down at writers with less experience because they seem to think they have earned that right to do so... No amount of years entitles you to be rude. It is not myself that has comprehension issues, but yourself... You don't earn politeness, and you are certainly no gentleman.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: TV program creator. What credits are fair?

                  What's being lost in this conversation is the fact that show runners are sometimes brought on to a show that is in development. They are hired as the EP, and sometimes they write an entirely new pilot.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X