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Old 08-16-2019, 09:20 PM   #11
Bono
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

A lot of people have said this -- don't do this. Don't fudge the page count. It's stupid quite frankly. Actual do the work and cut pages and words and scenes and characters if it's too long.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

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A lot of people have said this -- don't do this. Don't fudge the page count. It's stupid quite frankly. Actual do the work and cut pages and words and scenes and characters if it's too long.

Yeah. I get antsy when I expect to read a certain script in the alloted time and it's taking me three times longer than the previous script I read (where the pages obviously aren't fudged). It's usually done in a way where the writer thinks people don't notice. But, psychologically, you're thinking this script is not moving. For comparisons, I think I read Andrew Kevin Walkers script in like a couple of hours - talk about a fast read.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

Nope!

I'm always gonna fudge it. But not drastically.

Mainly because I FUKKIN HATE 'widows'. My OCD on the page won't allow it. I do first look for ways to cut, but if that doesn't work, I'ma fukk with margins until it LOOKS right.

Another thing I fukkin' hate! When the last page has a GIANT widow. My last page goes to the very bottom of the page, normally. I figure out a way to make that happen.

Gripe against Final Draft: There should be a "What words can I cut to slim page count?" Feature. And "How do I end the last page at the very bottom?" Feature. It's a pretty shitty software... after using super deep music software that'll allow you to do just about anything. Their "Now you can add photos!!!" Upgrade was fukkin absurd to me. Dude, in music software I can split a chord apart and change the notes in the chord, do you GET how that WAY harder for a software to do? FD sucks ass!

Also... I find it hilarious when writers complain about the COST of the software. Dude, try being a composer. My studio was $100,000 just to be in the game. Software was probably $40,000 of that.
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

that's all right. I feel the same thing with how the page actually looks. John August does too -- so much he invented his own font.

But I find that different than squeeing in 20 extra pages via margins.

I for sure has made fonts bigger or small and moved margins to make something look right.

My favorite page in a script maybe ever was in the spec THE BABYSITTER and one page just was huge letters WHAT. THE. ****. And it was perfect. And I could see how it was filmable but also funny as **** and the perfect buy me now.
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

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that's all right. I feel the same thing with how the page actually looks. John August does too -- so much he invented his own font.

But I find that different than squeeing in 20 extra pages via margins.

I for sure has made fonts bigger or small and moved margins to make something look right.

My favorite page in a script maybe ever was in the spec THE BABYSITTER and one page just was huge letters WHAT. THE. ****. And it was perfect. And I could see how it was filmable but also funny as **** and the perfect buy me now.
yeah that margin thing is a big cheat. i cheat on dialogue to bring up a widow, but not the action lines.

i will say that in a podcast interview with AB Fischer (i think it was his interview) and he said he hates it when writers to that, because he reads so many scripts that he "feels" how long it is by reading and says he'll think his on page 40 something and he looks and he on 30. not good to do.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

I hear you guys, but I can't do it.

A window in narrative = *MAD FACE!!!*

When reading other's scripts with a crap ton of widows, I'm like "BRUH! Why you making me look down for ONE FUKKING WORD!?!"

In mine: I'll read the line 50 million times trying to figure out how to compress it. If I just can't compress, fukk it. I'ma cheat it.

I'll even try to go bare bones before I cheat.

Dumb example: "The man walks to the car." Becomes "Man walks to car." But if 'car' is a narrative widow, it's coming up.

I'm talking 1-2 pages longer if I don't cheat, not 20.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

Making it look nice on page and editing out words so it doesn't go to the extra page is what I'm saying is the right thing to do. Just being lazy and playing with settings in Final Draft isn't the right way to do. They used to have a setting tight, normal, loose (which was oddly sexual to me) - maybe it's still there. I'm sure I tried it all back in the day. However like people say and that interview said, no matter the page count, you can feel it when 1 page feels like 2 minutes on screen not 1. So cheating doesn't even help you.

Anyway -- the main topic is script length. And I just got a batch of scripts for a friend (thanks) and the first thing I did on instinct as I looked at 30 scripts that I know other people think are great is look at page count.

So you can't just think about your script. You got to think of the person with 50 specs on their desk, she might just pick up the one that's the lightest. Now if it's all digital, they'll might do what I do, see that it says 1 out of 199 pages and say "screw this, I'll let the intern read it..." And guess what, the unpaid intern or reader is even madder at you for making it so long because they know how long it will take to read and ruin their weekend... and because the most important point of all is most long screenplays are terrible.

Few storytellers are capable of keeping our attention for that long. And in script form... oh boy you have to be a Sorkin genius...

A book can be 500 pages. Now I don't read those books, but some people love that it's so long. It's fun to them!

But Hollywood, time is money, yada yada, so it all adds up.

Also you're 199 page movie costs 400 billion to shoot. So after the rewrite it will cost $40 million and be 105 pages anyway. Save us all time, would ya?

By the way, half of you didn't read this whole post because it's OVER WRITTEN.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

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Originally Posted by Bono View Post
Making it look nice on page and editing out words so it doesn't go to the extra page is what I'm saying is the right thing to do. Just being lazy and playing with settings in Final Draft isn't the right way to do. They used to have a setting tight, normal, loose (which was oddly sexual to me) - maybe it's still there. I'm sure I tried it all back in the day. However like people say and that interview said, no matter the page count, you can feel it when 1 page feels like 2 minutes on screen not 1. So cheating doesn't even help you.

Anyway -- the main topic is script length. And I just got a batch of scripts for a friend (thanks) and the first thing I did on instinct as I looked at 30 scripts that I know other people think are great is look at page count.

So you can't just think about your script. You got to think of the person with 50 specs on their desk, she might just pick up the one that's the lightest. Now if it's all digital, they'll might do what I do, see that it says 1 out of 199 pages and say "screw this, I'll let the intern read it..." And guess what, the unpaid intern or reader is even madder at you for making it so long because they know how long it will take to read and ruin their weekend... and because the most important point of all is most long screenplays are terrible.

Few storytellers are capable of keeping our attention for that long. And in script form... oh boy you have to be a Sorkin genius...

A book can be 500 pages. Now I don't read those books, but some people love that it's so long. It's fun to them!

But Hollywood, time is money, yada yada, so it all adds up.

Also you're 199 page movie costs 400 billion to shoot. So after the rewrite it will cost $40 million and be 105 pages anyway. Save us all time, would ya?

By the way, half of you didn't read this whole post because it's OVER WRITTEN.
Ha (sexual)!

No argument from me. Waaaaaaay long = DEATH!!!

Here's what I bet: I bet those coming in with super long scripts who refuse to cut it, the overwhelming majority (meaning, bruh, you ain't Scott Frank!) have NEVER been read by an agent/manager/producer/studio exec/assistant/intern/or valet dude at the agency. Not once. That's my guess.

The old adage: You gotta know the rules before you break them.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
I hear you guys, but I can't do it.

A window in narrative = *MAD FACE!!!*

When reading other's scripts with a crap ton of widows, I'm like "BRUH! Why you making me look down for ONE FUKKING WORD!?!"

In mine: I'll read the line 50 million times trying to figure out how to compress it. If I just can't compress, fukk it. I'ma cheat it.

I'll even try to go bare bones before I cheat.

Dumb example: "The man walks to the car." Becomes "Man walks to car." But if 'car' is a narrative widow, it's coming up.

I'm talking 1-2 pages longer if I don't cheat, not 20.
maybe what you need is to let someone else cut it down for you for free. if you ever need it, i'm offering. it'd be a fun challenge. hooyah.

but it also seems like you did cut one pretty significantly. haha
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

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maybe what you need is to let someone else cut it down for you for free. if you ever need it, i'm offering. it'd be a fun challenge. hooyah.

but it also seems like you did cut one pretty significantly. haha
Swear! I've said to my manager "I'm cool if you wanna cut it yourself." I'd rather just send the fdx file ("cut whatever you want").

I seriously don't give a sh!t about my precious words once the story is out of me. The core story ain't gonna change. I'd gladly let you cut it (I've read your pages, you're good, I trust you). Problem is I don't have anything right now that needs to be cut or I'd take you up on the generous offer. The sci-fi already went out. Only generals. It's dead.

But, I believe this is a good idea: Trade scripts with talented writer friends "Dude... Cut whatever you think I don't need and I'll reread your edited draft." If I don't notice the cuts. Perfect! "Idk what you cut but it's shorter...cool! THANKS!" LOL

If I don't miss it, it wasn't important. CHOP IT!
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