Question for the pro screenwriters and industry pros

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  • #16
    I have to say, this turned into a really great thread.

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    • #17
      This is a most excellent thread. Thank you to all who've contributed thus far.

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      • #18
        tonyrob

        i think it boils down to two things. craft and commercialism.

        beginners and wannabes write scripts that can't be made into commercial movies.

        pros write stuff that can be made into commercial movies.

        beginners and wannabes have poor technique.

        pros (usually) have excellent technique.

        therefore, wannabes are writing stuff that nobody will want to see and they execute it with poor technique - a losing proposition.

        pros don't do that.


        zilla

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        • #19
          ...

          Great thread...helped me remember something I forgot...am busily scribbling on a pad.

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          • #20
            Amateur scripts lack logic. Have weak motivation. Stale, explanatory dialogue. And don't communicate any kind of vision.

            I agree that most scripts are written on bad ideas. Most ideas lack conflict right from the start. It's also very, very difficult to write in conflict for so long. While you twist and turn the story so the reader doesn't get bored. And if you write in conflict that means every scene will be vital. So there can be a logic progression that escalates in tension.

            Good writers also know how to expose their characters to us in act one. We see the events that need be seen to paint a picture of this person, their thought process, and foreshadow things to come. Creating strong characters is not easy. You have to spend time with them so you can understand them.

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            • #21
              It's not that pro's don't write crap. It's that pro's know when to quit and move on.
              A newbie writes crap and we see it.
              A pro writes crap and (for the most part) it's gathering dust in the closet.

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              • #22
                I think the "commerical idea" is over-rated. No one really knows what a commercial idea is until after it's made $200 million. What you need to be able to do is make the audience care. You have to snag their interest and sustain it. That's about execution, not some magical idea. The script that gets me the most meetings is a dark, noir-ish character piece. People I meet with tell me they love the writing, they think my voice is very strong and they were captivated by the hero. Is it a hard sell because it's a "small movie?" Yes, but it gets me in the door to pitch my "bigger" movie.

                The main problem I see is that it's easier to master the "rules" of screenwriting than it is to master screenwriting. Lots of scripts hit all the marks but they do it in a predictible way without much flair or style. It's not that there's something wrong with the screenplay, it's that there's something missing.

                Other posters have mentioned predictible choices. That's the problem with following the rules. The writer picks something that "fits." It satisfies the rule, but it won't satisfy the audience. You can't just follow the rules, you have to reinvent them in every story. The audience needs to be surprised, delighted, shocked. They need to feel in their bones that what happens is right -- like there is no other better way for the events to unfold. Audiences know all the rules because they've watched thousands of hours of TV and movies. They can't tell you what a second act reversal is, but they know one when they see it so yours had better be fresh. It means you need to throw away a lot of ideas. A simple test is to gauge your own responses. Did you say "that's a good second act ending?" or did you get chills up your spine when the idea popped into your head. Did it make you laugh? Choke you up?

                You have to dig deep enough to surprise yourself and move yourself. It's the only way you'll ever move or surprise an audience.

                To sum it up, I'd say you have to take risks successfully. Too many writers either play it safe or they take risks and fail. Watching someone swing back and forth on a trapeze is boring. Watching them do a difficult move and fall is exciting but disappointing. Watching them nail a tripple back flip without a net takes your breath away.

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                • #23
                  Steve, I keep hearing how following the "rules" results in predictable stories. I think predictable choices by the writer lead to predictable stories. The so called "rules" of screenwriting are nothing more than generally accepted practices and principles that have been tested and proven over thousands of years that serve only one purpose -- to facilitate the effective and efficient telling of the story.

                  The "rules" do not dictate what that story is, they only suggest the best way to tell it. If the story is predictable, following the "rules" will only help effectively tell a predictable story. If the story is unpredictable the "rules" will only help clearly tell an unpredictable story.

                  You may have a funny joke to tell, but the "rules" of joke telling would suggest you don not start with the punch line. Does following the suggestion that you end with the punch line make the joke any less funny or more predictable?

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                  • #24
                    During my years as a reader there were a couple symptoms of poor writing that showed up over and over again. The posts above have covered many of the issues, but here a couple more:

                    1) Poorly developed characters, especially supporting characters. In good scripts, all the characters are believable and well-rounded. In many poor scripts, supporting characters feel like props that exist only to serve the main character and/or the story.

                    I also noticed a great number of scripts that had characters with little or no back story. They seem to have sprung whole at the moment they were needed in the story. Love interests without a romantic past or no family to influence their decisions. I've read many romantic comedies that are absolutely devoid of families, but in real life you can't shake your mother off of you if there's a hint that a wedding is in the offing.

                    2) Genre issues. Pros tend to write specs that are in popular genres (Action, comedy, romcom, horror, thriller) more than novice writers. Poor scripts often do not break new ground in their genre; they just warm-up the same stuff we've already seen.

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                    • #25
                      Great thread, all! Thanks for taking the time to shine a little light into the empty vastness that all us wannbes must cross in order to start wrting at a professional level.

                      Jason

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                      • #26
                        Maybe this is redundant, but I think the biggest problem in novice scripts I've read is that nothing happens. People sit around talking, but there's not enough doing.* Movies are escapism. I don't want to see a movie about guys in a diner. I want to see heroes jumping off roofs or growing horns or breaking into Fort Knox. Put your character at sea and make him swim back to a different shore than the one where he started.

                        * Please note, the decision to act must be logically motivated.

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                        • #27
                          Like others, I am impressed by the quality of this thread. Good answers. I have archived some of it already for my own use. It would be a good thread to go into FAQ, once the discussion has run its course.

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                          • #28
                            Deux, I wasn't saying that people shouldn't follow the rules. They should. My point is that following the rules isn't enough. They need to be creatively applied. Too many people end up with predictable choices because they think all they have to do is follow the rules.

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                            • #29
                              In that case, Steve, we are in total agreement.
                              :hat

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                              • #30
                                Do you guys think too that pro writers write more 'saleable' (okay, I can't remember if it was decided that it was saleable, or sellable. lol) scripts because they have better feedback with agents, and managers, not to mention constant industry contact to help guide them in their choices?

                                Tami

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