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Old 04-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #161
Biohazard
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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Originally Posted by wcmartell View Post
SALT got either a B+ or B from audiences through Cinemascore, whatever the film's flaws - they didn't seem to care...
Bill, are you implying that it's okay to write garbage because the audiences are idiots?
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:03 PM   #162
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

No - I'm saying that when you have a stew, and despite your best efforts, one (or more) of the ingedients isn't of the best quality, the other ingredients may taste so good that nobody notices. That doesn't mean you *try* to make bad stew, or cut corners by buying month old meat, or whatever - just that you can't lose sight that the stew is not a single ingredient.

It seems to me the folks who find flaws in a film so they can say "Johnny Finnegan jumped of the Brooklyn Bridge, so it's okay for me to do it" rather than study a film to find the flaws and positive elements to learn how to improve their own screenplays are on the wrong track.

You can't focus only on the poor quality ingedients in the stew and ignore the rest of the ingredients that made it taste great.

If you only look for the negative, you miss the positives.

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Old 04-10-2011, 04:16 PM   #163
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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If you only look for the negative, you miss the positives.
Totally agree! A vital part of the learning process.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:56 PM   #164
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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Originally Posted by wcmartell View Post
No - I'm saying that when you have a stew, and despite your best efforts, one (or more) of the ingedients isn't of the best quality, the other ingredients may taste so good that nobody notices. That doesn't mean you *try* to make bad stew, or cut corners by buying month old meat, or whatever - just that you can't lose sight that the stew is not a single ingredient.

It seems to me the folks who find flaws in a film so they can say "Johnny Finnegan jumped of the Brooklyn Bridge, so it's okay for me to do it" rather than study a film to find the flaws and positive elements to learn how to improve their own screenplays are on the wrong track.

You can't focus only on the poor quality ingedients in the stew and ignore the rest of the ingredients that made it taste great.

If you only look for the negative, you miss the positives.

- Bill
I don't eat stews with turds floating in them. Whatever the bad ingredient(s), this tasted terrible.
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:08 PM   #165
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Post Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

Maybe it just had too much SALT?
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:10 PM   #166
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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Maybe it just had too much SALT?
Haha. I'd like to add that normally I'd agree with Bill, if he'd posted his thoughts in a thread to a movie I enjoyed.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:31 PM   #167
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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Originally Posted by wcmartell View Post
No - I'm saying that when you have a stew, and despite your best efforts, one (or more) of the ingedients isn't of the best quality, the other ingredients may taste so good that nobody notices. That doesn't mean you *try* to make bad stew, or cut corners by buying month old meat, or whatever - just that you can't lose sight that the stew is not a single ingredient.
I understand your point, but it's a horrible analogy for going from the page to the screen.

The script is the stew that the writer slaves over and spend countless hours making sure it's as good as it can be. Then he gives it to other people who distribute stews to the general public, and instead of simply giving people this great stew, they all take turns crapping in the pot. Then they give the public their "new and improved" stew.

Everyone says Salt was a better script than a film. Source Code was a better script, etc.

This begs the question...why were certain changes made knowing that it would result in a lesser-quality story?

If I read something that's basically all good, and you give me only some of that good with some added crap, don't tell me to look at the stuff that wasn't changed and be happy, because I won't be if there is not one good reason why the film could not be as good as the script that was ravaged and turned into an inferior product intentionally.

Why not just film the script that sold and everyone liked in the first place? To inflate some suit's ego? Or his wallet? No, that's bullshit, and I find it shocking that so many people are not infuriated by it.

Give me the best story possible. Not excuses.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:18 PM   #168
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

There are two possible answers, Bio.

1. The specs are really not as good as people say. I have counted two posters since I came into this thread who did not like the Salt spec at all.

2. And this is the more likely one: if Salt the movie sells, despite being full of holes, there is no impetus to change. It's a bottom line business, and it's a business first and foremost. It's like pundits telling Cubs fans not to go to games because this is the only way the owners will recognize they need to change their approach. There's no reason for management to try harder to produce a better team if tickets sell no matter what the quality of the team.

Now, the mass psychology question: why have audiences in the past 10-15 years become more willing to accept movies with glaring story problems?
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:29 PM   #169
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Default Re: E. SALT vs. SALT

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Why not just film the script that sold and everyone liked in the first place?
You know I agree with this - I have asked that same question on my blog before too many times.

But every script is a stew, and there will always be some element that isn't the best (we have these leftover carrots from Thursday, put 'em in the stew) and there are also things that are not to some people's tastes.

In this thread are a couple of people who liked the movie more than the script, and others who thought they were different and liked both. SALT went through a major change - dude became a chick. Things that work for a dude didn't work for a chick...

And also, the script has some stuff that works on the page but probably would be tough to pull off on screen. The first 25 pages are interrogating the Russian... and the next 15 pages are interrogating Salt! So you have 40 pages of two people sitting across a desk from each other. The dialogue is great twisty stuff - but it's still 2 people sitting and talking for 40 pages. Works on the page, not so much on the screen. So the decision was made to make it more chase thriller from the start while they were doing penis removal rewrites.

There are many things that seem to work on the page but don't work on the screen, and part of reading any script is to see past the paper to the movie - does the *movie* work?

You try to put only the best things in the stew, but Thursday's carrots may end up in there, or you put in too many onions or not enough garlic or whatever. Now, maybe it's a taste thing - you *hate* garlic, so you don't put much in, but everyone else at the table loves garlic. Stew tastes great to you, but not to everyone else.

- Bill (my mom once made a huge batch of spaghetti sauce and accidentally used cinnamon instead of oregano - we were poor and had to eat it for a week)
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:16 PM   #170
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Default Re: SALT kicks ass (might be mild spoilers - though I tried not)

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Now, the mass psychology question: why have audiences in the past 10-15 years become more willing to accept movies with glaring story problems?
People are morons, plain and simple. Lazy, ignorant morons.

But in addition to that...what can we do? We don't know a movie is good or not until after we see it, and we pay to see movies before viewing them. What can we do? Ask for our money back because the movie sucked? Of course not. That money is already fattening H-wood's wallets, and there's not a god damn thing anyone in the audience can do about it. Not one thing.
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