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  • #46
    Re: First 10 (or 1) page

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    Yes, I did read page 1 and I was bored. Nothing happened.

    When an industry professional used A BEAUTIFUL MIND as an example of losing out on a great script with the first ten pages standard to judge a script, I read the script and saw his point. If that script was written by an unproven, non-pro writer, I believe there would have been some industry professionals who wouldn't have read past ten pages.

    I know you disagree with that, finalact4, but that just my opinion.
    Respectfully - actually, wait no - scratch that part - if you read that and don’t think there’s a voice and a command of this craft...come on, man. That’s what it’s about. That’s the level you need to be operating on, right there.

    If an amateur wrote this and a CE read it they’d be like “holy hell does this person write novels?” It has voice and clear artistic ability.

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    • #47
      Re: First 10 (or 1) page

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      Yes, I did read page 1 and I was bored. Nothing happened.

      When an industry professional used A BEAUTIFUL MIND as an example of losing out on a great script with the first ten pages standard to judge a script, I read the script and saw his point. If that script was written by an unproven, non-pro writer, I believe there would have been some industry professionals who wouldn't have read past ten pages.

      I know you disagree with that, finalact4, but that just my opinion.
      First of all, A Beautiful Mind was adapted from a best-selling biography (as stated on the cover page) so the script could never have been written by a non-pro submitting a spec. Akiva Goldsman was hired to adapt the book.

      You continually refer to "industry professionals" saying "this" or "that" to bolster your various arguments without citing your source.

      For all I know you misunderstood this "industry professional" or, even if he or she did make the statement, using A Beautiful Mind as an example of their point was a very poor choice on their part.

      Worse -- it gave non-pros the excuse they need for the poor quality of their own first 10 pages.

      And it gave you the excuse to say you were bored by the script's opening, "Nothing happened."

      That's very revealing, Joe.

      IMO, the first step in becoming a solid writer is recognizing excellence in others' work. If one is unable to see it and figure out why it's excellent, one will fail to objectively assess their own work, good or bad.
      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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      • #48
        Re: First 10 (or 1) page

        Truth is you never know what will make people pass. But you know for sure bad writing will every time. But maybe it's the title. Maybe it's the genre. Maybe they are thinking about lunch.

        But come on, we all have read scripts. If we were all given the same pile of random scripts -- I bet most of us would pick the same scripts that they like the writing of. It would never be 100% but trust me we are all throwing out the bad scripts.

        In other words -- you know it when you read it.

        We all might not love everything -- that's where opinion and taste come in. Back to the Future I think took 4 years to get made. Maybe the spec was different -- but it's a lot of factors go into this.

        There's a reason action movies usually start with a big action scene at the beginning or a comedy movie has a funny opening scene. To hook the reader in. Did Basic Instinct start slow or with a sex scene and murder?

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        • #49
          Re: First 10 (or 1) page

          Originally posted by Satriales View Post

          If an amateur wrote this and a CE read it they'd be like "holy hell does this person write novels?- It has voice and clear artistic ability.
          Satriales, it was a CE who used A BEAUTIFUL MIND as an example of a soft, slow read that could get passed on without reading more than 10 pages.

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          • #50
            Re: First 10 (or 1) page

            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
            First of all, A Beautiful Mind was adapted from a best-selling biography (as stated on the cover page) so the script could never have been written by a non-pro submitting a spec. Akiva Goldsman was hired to adapt the book.

            You continually refer to "industry professionals" saying "this" or "that" to bolster your various arguments without citing your source.
            sc111, you can't use your imagination with a hypothetical "what if" it was written by a non-pro?

            Industry professionals don't appreciate it when you use their names because they don't want to get any grief, or backlash that may come from it, but you always think the worst of me, never giving me the benefit of the doubt, so I'll give the name of the industry professional who used A BEAUTIFUL MIND as an example: Christopher Lockhart, executive at WME, head of the Story Department.

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            • #51
              Re: First 10 (or 1) page

              Originally posted by sc111 View Post

              if he or she did make the statement, using A Beautiful Mind as an example of their point was a very poor choice on their part.
              Poor Mr. Lockhart. I just know this nonsense is gonna get back to him and give him grief.

              sc111, this was his opinion. How can you say he made "a very poor choice?" Taste is subjective. And he wasn't talking about the script. He was talking about how someone might perceive its opening pages too soft and slow and not continue to read and this is why he would read a screenplay up to its first act.

              Do you know how many great scripts were rejected over and over again?

              Come on, people need to respect opinions and not trash someone. If I tell you vanilla ice cream is the greatest, I'm not wrong just because in your opinion you believe chocolate ice cream is the greatest.

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              • #52
                Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                Satriales, it was a CE who used A BEAUTIFUL MIND as an example of a soft, slow read that could get passed on without reading more than 10 pages.
                Sure. That CE is stupid. (Please provide the name of the exec as well - would love to mock their sh1tty taste) Great **** gets passed on every day. I'd argue that's objectively professional writing.

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                • #53
                  Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                  JoeNYC, can you cite the Chris Lockhart reference please? There is a Done Deal Pro thread that someone said Chris Lockhart said...

                  http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...d.php?p=171867

                  It doesn't site the Chris Lockhart reference, but it's from 2005; fifteen years ago. If he wrote it, he might agree that he actually contradicts himself...

                  "unspectacular writing that housed
                  some excellent drama and compelling
                  characters."

                  Sounds pretty spectacular to me.

                  A Beautiful Mind is an adaptation of a best selling biography. It is not an original spec. There are going to be some expectations the audience will have and the writer must consider. It's a historical drama.

                  It has a complex narrative at its core. It tells a tale from Nash's POV and it isn't until the end that the chilling truth is revealed so clearly. An amazing feat in which we only realize the truth, at the end, and the poignancy and tragedy of it is palpable.
                  "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

                    "unspectacular writing that housed
                    some excellent drama and compelling
                    characters."

                    Sounds pretty spectacular to me.
                    Me too.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                      If I have a stack of scripts from people I don't know that I'm reading for staffing, I might not give up after page one... but I won't make it to page 10 if it isn't great. I'd guess I go two or three pages if something is a complete miss.

                      Obviously, I'm not being paid to read, or I'd read the whole thing and tell my boss what I think of it.

                      And I'll read the whole thing if it's a recommendation from someone I trust.

                      But all of this is a little crazy - is someone going to get this advice and go "oh, I'll write well, because I know it matters now?" "How helpful to know that I need to have a confident voice that draws readers in!"

                      The first scene should make you need to read the second scene, and so on. Feature, TV, whatever.

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                      • #56
                        Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                        Sorry, missed this:

                        Originally posted by DDoc View Post
                        William Goldman wrote that after about three scripts an aspiring screenwriter isn't going to get much better. Do you agree with that?
                        God no.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                          Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

                          If he wrote it, he might agree that he actually contradicts himself...

                          "unspectacular writing that housed
                          some excellent drama and compelling
                          characters."

                          Sounds pretty spectacular to me.
                          Keep in mind, he said the script was great. This was in reference to shutting down the read after one page, the industry person would miss out.

                          finalact4, I can see with "unspectacular writing" and "excellent drama" it may seem contradictive, but Chris Lockhart is big on "dramatizing."

                          I don't want to speak for Mr. Lockhart and put words in his mouth, so if someone wants to contact him and ask what he means -- nicely please -- using this quote, though he's not too found of Done Deal. He left mad, citing "a wolfgang mentality."

                          And no, sc111, I wasn't the one who drove him away. If you look at that thread, I wasn't amongst the group who were attacking him.

                          Anyway, in the link that finalact4 provided the first highlighted passage in that post was from a CBS executive. The second highlighted passage was from Chris Lockhart with the relevant section about page 1 states:

                          "So shutting down a script at the end of page one because it is not well written may prevent the reader from uncovering some great drama. I've had this experience MANY times. A BEAUTIFUL MIND is just one example - a script with unspectacular writing that housed some excellent drama and compelling characters."

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                          • #58
                            Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                            No one needs to contact Chris Lockhart about something he said 15 years ago. That's ridiculous. My reading comprehension is fine.

                            I can form my own opinion and have. I need to read no further.

                            Page one matters. The first sentence matters. The last sentence on every page matters. The first 10 pages matter. The next 20 matter. It all matters.

                            Write with that in mind.
                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                              But all of this is a little crazy - is someone going to get this advice and go "oh, I'll write well, because I know it matters now?" "How helpful to know that I need to have a confident voice that draws readers in!"
                              Hahahha.

                              Are you sure? Are you sure you don't want to contact CHRISTOPHER LOCKHEART and ask him about a quote from 15 years ago just to make sure?

                              Good writing you say? Writing that makes you want to read further? I don't know, man... that seems pretty risky!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: First 10 (or 1) page

                                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                                No one needs to contact Chris Lockhart about something he said 15 years ago. That's ridiculous.
                                "ridiculous"?

                                Then what was this about, when you said: "he might agree that he actually contradicts himself..."

                                You made a statement that he "might" agree that he contradicts himself.

                                I doubt that he would agree with your assessment. So, instead of spreading this as truthful, I suggested to contact him for his meaning of that quote, but, of course, it's "ridiculous" to get his true meaning because finalact4 says so.

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