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  • #61
    Re: Girls

    Originally posted by MacG View Post
    I dig the show, hate Diablo with the passion, and am white....
    hate is such a strong word. why so much passionate hate? you don't even know her.
    it would be different if you didn't like her storytelling, but that's not what you said.

    and it gives me the willies when i see "hate" and "white" in the same sentence.

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    • #62
      Re: Girls

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      I can't help but feel that more than half the people that are pointing fingers at Girls* are the same people that questioned Diablo Cody's success. And that most of them are white, too. There's something with successful young women that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

      *I don't mean people in this forum particularly.
      PC pot meet PC kettle.
      If you really like it you can have the rights
      It could make a million for you overnight

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      • #63
        Re: Girls

        Originally posted by odocoileus View Post
        PC pot meet PC kettle.
        Pfffff... What does it even have to do with PC?

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        • #64
          Re: Girls

          I realize that TV is not the same as movies, in that you can end up with a writing staff comprised of people of various backgrounds. But someone has to create the show. In this case, the show was created by a young woman who is white.

          Without a doubt, characters can be written without limiting the race of the actors who might be cast, but "Girls" is a show about young women examining/sorting through/talking about their own very personal stories. I assume that some substantial aspects of those stories transcend race/religion/where you grew up/financial means of your parents/even gender... but I also assume that some substantial aspects don't.

          So what if you're sitting at your desk and thinking, "Right here in my story, I really want to introduce a well-drawn character who is distinctly [enter some ethnicity/social background/etc. that is not yours - HERE] ." Not because it's "the right thing to do" by some measure, but because you're simply inspired to do it. For your story. You can even envision this character. So you intro this character, continue on with your story, and... Guess what? You can't do it. You can kinda-almost do it, but you can't. Your story requires you to really get inside this person, but you simply don't know enough of what's needed to make it work.

          So, then what?

          I've never been a young woman of any sort, so maybe I wouldn't notice one way or the other, but... What if one of "Girls" central characters, written as is, were cast with a non-white woman? My assumption is: That would not work. Or even if it did kinda work, my assumption (right or wrong) is that people would complain that that character's voice was "wrong". That "she sounds like a white girl." In some stories, so what. But this is a story focused heavily on introspection.

          I guess all of this is a long way of saying that I agree with BDZ's post.

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          • #65
            Re: Girls

            Are there not priviledged black girls too? Why would they sound any different?

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            • #66
              Re: Girls

              Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
              Are there not priviledged black girls too? Why would they sound any different?
              I dunno. But, for example, here are two groups I do know: White Jews who grew up in well-to-do families and white Episcopalians who grew up in well-to-do families. They sounded different in high school, they sounded different 10 years later, and they still sound quite a bit different from each other. And in a story about them, in an analog to "Girls", IMO they should sound different in a way that reflects that.

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              • #67
                Re: Girls

                If you want diversity, NCIS is a good place to start. Every week the corpse is a different nationality. As for Girls, I'lll continue to watch. I'll also watch 2 out of every 5 Tyler Perry movies- to make sure i'm well rounded.

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                • #68
                  Re: Girls

                  All they have to do is subtitle "Girls" to where everyone feels they've been invited to the party per:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA9FVi7Cqjc

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                  • #69
                    Re: Girls

                    Originally posted by Manchester View Post

                    I guess all of this is a long way of saying that I agree with BDZ's post.
                    No you don't. Reread it.

                    I find it exhausting dealing with white people and race.

                    I can summarize pretty much every argument to the ridiculous stats:

                    -- you're not facing adversity because of your race, your problems are the same as everyone else's so stop attributing (any) of them to race.

                    -- minorities are underrepresented because they aren't trying to get in.

                    -- (any version of) reverse racism.

                    -- (and my all time favorite) being a minority is the only way you can get a job in tv.

                    blahblahblah Doesn't matter. Nothing ever changes. Certainly not the stats, which have been intractable since I got into the game. Everything is fine the way it is and minorities should stop complaining about the fact that Hollywood writers are almost 100% white.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Girls

                      Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                      Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                      I guess all of this is a long way of saying that I agree with BDZ's post.
                      No you don't. Reread it.

                      I find it exhausting dealing with white people and race.

                      I can summarize pretty much every argument to the ridiculous stats:

                      -- you're not facing adversity because of your race, your problems are the same as everyone else's so stop attributing (any) of them to race.

                      -- minorities are underrepresented because they aren't trying to get in.

                      -- (any version of) reverse racism.

                      -- (and my all time favorite) being a minority is the only way you can get a job in tv.

                      blahblahblah Doesn't matter. Nothing ever changes. Certainly not the stats, which have been intractable since I got into the game. Everything is fine the way it is and minorities should stop complaining about the fact that Hollywood writers are almost 100% white.
                      Well then, here are the parts of what you wrote with which I was expressing my agreement:
                      Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post

                      White people should be allowed to show the world the way they want to for as long as they want to do it. Who cares if there's diversity on the screen? No one is obliged to show diversity. Who cares if minorities are under-represented? Frankly I'm tired of people who are not getting roles or jobs complaining about race. That the Bachelor or Girls or Friends have 100% white leads shouldn't matter. Only good story telling matters. ...

                      Minorities should do a better job making opportunities for themselves instead of complaining. ...

                      ... the point is, stop complaining. Be like Tyler Perry: start writing plays and put them on yourself. ...
                      I'm not saying that what I wrote is a restatement of what you'd written; that would have been a waste of time. You'd already written it. I was offering my thoughts as to how I ended up at what seems to me to be the same conclusion as yours. I just reached it from a different direction.
                      Last edited by Manchester; 04-26-2012, 02:18 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Girls

                        My point was, for Tyler Perry to get the (only) "black" show(s) on the air, he had to through a process that not a single white show creator did. He had to become an undeniable financial force that you cannot say no to.

                        Look, I don't care that a given show is all white. Let Girls be the way it is. Let any given show be all white. In fact, minorities have made great strides in being fairly represented in television. Thank god for Shonda Rhimes. The problem is, if you leave white people up to their "vision" without pulling their coat, every show in New York city becomes Friends. Or Sex in the City. Or Seinfeld. And so on.

                        I hear white folks b!tch about diversity programs for writers. What crosses my mind is that they would have no problem with every room being all white (which is almost the case) if it were not for minorities 'b!tching' about opportunities.

                        I've never changed one person's mind. In the end, I walk away from these discussions knowing that all I've done is convinced another white person that I'm yet another complaining minority.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Girls

                          I find it exhausting dealing with people who think we can't have reached the same conclusion if we didn't follow the same path to get there.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Girls

                            Gotta do a Jeremy Lin.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Girls

                              I like turtles.
                              Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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                              • #75
                                Re: Girls

                                Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                                Are there not priviledged black girls too? Why would they sound any different?
                                For openers they wouldn't be this colorless, boring, or whiny. Depek Chopra would probably consider offing himself after sitting through an episode.

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