Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

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  • #31
    Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

    Originally posted by SBScript View Post
    Of course. There's a common approach, "One for them, and one for me." But, if you only write for you without any thought of a script's viability, then your rep will drop you.
    Understood. What I was saying is that a script may be viable but just not the kind of script the rep likes and/or wants to focus on. The "one for them, one for me" seems like a good way to go. I believe a lot of directors follow that approach as well.

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    • #32
      Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

      Originally posted by Mad Mat View Post

      Filmmaking is a manufacturing process just like any other - and we writers are the inventors hoping that some massive corporation will like our 'invention' enough to mass produce it for sale to the mass public. What's not to figure out? Where's the 'art' in that?
      .
      Oh come on, is that really how you feel about filmmaking? That whether we're manufacturing moving pictures or toilet seats it's the same thing? Say it isn't so!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

        Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
        Exactly! Which is why I think writers being free agents would be an interesting concept. You're not asking reps to make this agonizing life changing decision about whether or not to rep you, it would just be, you like the script, cool, it's yours to try to sell. And you could have a second script with a second rep.

        It would take the pressure off both sides, because it's a huge decision for both the writer and the rep. This way, it's just one script. Not all reps have the same taste or the same contacts or the same power, so maybe one rep is good for that indie drama and another has the connections to get that tentpole read by a big shot producer or hook you up with a top agent. This would be especially good for writers who write in different genres, but who find that reps prefer them to stick with one genre.

        Anyway, it's just a thought, obviously there would be pros and cons.

        Maybe next time I query, I'll put "Looking to hip-pocket a rep" in the subject and let you all know how it works

        Or maybe: "20 percent to anyone who sells my horror comedy!"

        Now that would certainly be a pro-active approach.
        I agree with you, Rantanplan! Of course I have never had a rep. I query them occasionally, and occasionally get a read. I query producers more, and get more reads from them - but no sale yet. I basically query those who seem like they might like the work, be they managers, agents or producers. It is very much like Lucha said, finding the right door in the dark.
        From the many posts here about managers and agents, it does seem that the business is skewed toward they having too much power, and the writer not enough. I think this is changing, but it won't be that obvious for awhile, because the economy is so bad. And, old structures take a while to fall down and be replaced.
        sigpic http://blip.fm/Peasblossom

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        • #34
          Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

          Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
          Understood. What I was saying is that a script may be viable but just not the kind of script the rep likes and/or wants to focus on. The "one for them, one for me" seems like a good way to go. I believe a lot of directors follow that approach as well.
          Any rep that would shoot down a great script *that could conceivably become a movie* is a fool.

          Edited to note that, I actually fired an agent because I gave him a friend's script and he said it was incredible but he wanted to be known as a guy who sells action and other studio projects. He was an idiot. We got the movie made.

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          • #35
            Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

            Originally posted by SBScript View Post
            Any rep that would shoot down a great script *that could conceivably become a movie* is a fool.

            Edited to note that, I actually fired an agent because I gave him a friend's script and he said it was incredible but he wanted to be known as a guy who sells action and other studio projects. He was an idiot. We got the movie made.
            Good for you

            Speaking of reps, I just started watching Entourage now that it's on regular TV and I can see what all the fuss is about.

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            • #36
              Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

              Originally posted by ihavebiglips View Post
              And another thing on leverage... it is much better to be a secret weapon or diamond in the rough, as reps do take pride in breaking new writers (having an eye for talent, which helps their own reputation as well).

              If you're spamming your **** all over town and getting reads left and right on mediocre scripts, you're not exactly a hidden talent.

              Again, this is why I advocate crawling under a rock and really, really, really dedicating yourself to knowing how to craft a great sample and developing your distinct voice as a writer so that when the time comes it doesn't take a thousand queries to land that rep and you haven't been exposed all over the place.

              Or, as the story editor from CAA said "we will find YOU."
              Thanks for this - seriously - I've been under this rock for quite sometime after dropping comedy. I want those six previous scripts to fade away. But sometimes I doubt that decision. This helped.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #37
                Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                Thanks for this - seriously - I've been under this rock for quite sometime after dropping comedy. I want those six previous scripts to fade away. But sometimes I doubt that decision. This helped.
                You working on the flood script?

                Either way, whatever you're working on... lemme know when you're done and need some eyes on it. I owe you a read from a while back, you sparked some ideas that are gonna make that script you read a vicious motherfucker (when we get around to the rewrite).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                  Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                  Oh come on, is that really how you feel about filmmaking? That whether we're manufacturing moving pictures or toilet seats it's the same thing? Say it isn't so!
                  We may be selling entertainment rather than bathroom hardware, but tell me where the process is different?

                  And just because we're writing scripts, doesn't mean we put more inspiration into our products than a toilet seat designer.

                  The only difference between the film industry and any other is that the supply chain is extremely fragile, i.e. you can't keep going back to the same supplier and every time expect the same level of product/service. Hence the constant need for new writers, new producers, new directors, etc.

                  Like it or not, filmmaking IS a manufacturing process. And the clues are all around you. Producers are called producers, not because they grow fruit, but because they take your raw material and turn it into something marketable. Notice how scripts are often referred to as 'material'? Subtle, isn't it? Easy to miss.

                  As an aside, I've noticed over the years (in the UK) that 'filmmakers' are all about making the film first and then hope to sell the film afterwards, whereas producers are all about where they can sell the film before they even option the script. It's a subtle difference in mindset, but I've seen more 'producers' get their careers off the ground than 'filmmakers'.

                  And here's something else that I've noticed. In the UK I meet so many writers (especially writer/directors) who are all trying to create the 'next best Britsh script'. They don't seem to care about their audience or whether the film makes it money back or not, they just want their 'genius' to be recognised. And it makes me cringe. Seriously. I mean, whatever happened to just wanting to entertain someone? Why is it all about 'the filmmaker' ... and not 'the audience'? Did that get lost when digital took over from film?

                  And strangely enough, it's these 'filmmakers' who are the first to bemoan the 'business' side of the industry when their film doesn't sell. Kind of ironic how they're pissed about the evil 'business' not wanting to 'buy' their film.

                  So bringing it back to scriptwriting, do I think the industry is a manufacturing process just like any other? Totally. Do I think scripts are just the raw materials of this manufacturing process? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're worthless or less deserving of any merit.

                  It is what it is. Simple as. Doesn't matter if you view it through a magnifying glass or rose-tinted glasses, it won't change the fact that the industry is what it is - a manufacturing process.

                  Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                  Speaking of reps, I just started watching Entourage now that it's on regular TV and I can see what all the fuss is about.
                  Excellent series. Absolutley love it. Enjoy.

                  Mat.
                  I'm a product of everything I've ever experienced ... I need to get out more!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                    Originally posted by ihavebiglips View Post
                    You working on the flood script?

                    Either way, whatever you're working on... lemme know when you're done and need some eyes on it. I owe you a read from a while back, you sparked some ideas that are gonna make that script you read a vicious motherfucker (when we get around to the rewrite).

                    I'm glad my paltry notes helped in any small way - I barely gave you notes.

                    Yeah -- still working on the flood script. I've retooled the outline/beats several times. Still perfecting it. Earlier this week it dawned on me I need to take a different approach with the pre-midpoint that was bugging me.

                    Which brings me to the thread topic ...

                    When I had a manager I was writing comedy - I don't regret the couple years at all. However, I was really green about the business but he decided to work with me on my second script (and my first was truly indy fodder anyway). He did get me reads with name producers and coverage at larger studios. Which in turn gave me a lot of confidence. I have no regrets at all.

                    However, in hindsight I should have questioned his game plan.

                    For example - on a script that went wide, the studio reader gave the script a consider and gave me, the writer, a strong recommend and added: "Writer definitely has comedy chops."

                    I asked my manager if this could get me a few meet and greets, he put the brakes on. He insisted no one would give me an assignment until I sold a spec. No meetings - just keep pumping out specs. Virtually every 90 days. Which was great practice for me. I learned a lot.

                    All of this went down in my first year of writing screenplays. We eventually parted company and the truth is I'd rather write other genres (he only repped comedy). So, no biggie.

                    But now I realize the "wait till you sell a spec" strategy is not the only strategy. I'll be much more assertive when I do start looking for representation again.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                      Originally posted by Mad Mat View Post
                      We may be selling entertainment rather than bathroom hardware, but tell me where the process is different?

                      And just because we're writing scripts, doesn't mean we put more inspiration into our products than a toilet seat designer.

                      The only difference between the film industry and any other is that the supply chain is extremely fragile, i.e. you can't keep going back to the same supplier and every time expect the same level of product/service. Hence the constant need for new writers, new producers, new directors, etc.

                      Like it or not, filmmaking IS a manufacturing process. And the clues are all around you. Producers are called producers, not because they grow fruit, but because they take your raw material and turn it into something marketable. Notice how scripts are often referred to as 'material'? Subtle, isn't it? Easy to miss.

                      As an aside, I've noticed over the years (in the UK) that 'filmmakers' are all about making the film first and then hope to sell the film afterwards, whereas producers are all about where they can sell the film before they even option the script. It's a subtle difference in mindset, but I've seen more 'producers' get their careers off the ground than 'filmmakers'.

                      And here's something else that I've noticed. In the UK I meet so many writers (especially writer/directors) who are all trying to create the 'next best Britsh script'. They don't seem to care about their audience or whether the film makes it money back or not, they just want their 'genius' to be recognised. And it makes me cringe. Seriously. I mean, whatever happened to just wanting to entertain someone? Why is it all about 'the filmmaker' ... and not 'the audience'? Did that get lost when digital took over from film?

                      And strangely enough, it's these 'filmmakers' who are the first to bemoan the 'business' side of the industry when their film doesn't sell. Kind of ironic how they're pissed about the evil 'business' not wanting to 'buy' their film.

                      So bringing it back to scriptwriting, do I think the industry is a manufacturing process just like any other? Totally. Do I think scripts are just the raw materials of this manufacturing process? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're worthless or less deserving of any merit.

                      It is what it is. Simple as. Doesn't matter if you view it through a magnifying glass or rose-tinted glasses, it won't change the fact that the industry is what it is - a manufacturing process.



                      Excellent series. Absolutley love it. Enjoy.

                      Mat.
                      Well no offense, but writers who truly feel that way would probably be better off selling toilet seats, because in most cases there's more money involved with toilet seats than there is with writing screenplays and hoping someone will buy them

                      Or maybe you just need to go watch one of your all time favorite movies again, and remember again what inspired you in the first place, that magical combination of a great script, great directing, great acting, great cinematography, great score, profound themes, moments you still remember years later, friends you begged to watch it just so you could talk about it with them, lines you still love quoting, scenes that make you smile just thinking about them, a day that was crap and then all of a sudden it wasn't, because you were watching that film.

                      If you get all of that out of a toilet seat my friend, well then that is one HELL of a toilet seat!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                        ?

                        I'm sorry, I thought this was the Business board. On a Screenwriting forum. Did I miss something?

                        Haven't you ever seen The Player with Tim Robbins? Or read The Hunger Artist by Franz Kafka? One has got to decide between art and commerce eventually.

                        Seriously, though, this is Sparta. Writers write. And then the suits do their thing. That's how it's always been, that's how it'll always be.

                        Just my two cents. Peese 2 urrbaudy 'n hurr.

                        EDIT: And, in closing, this is what happens when a writer tries to 'rebel' against the Hollywood system:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
                        "Right now it sounds like an urban Idiocracy meets Big in The Matrix (with a dash of Tron?)." --Mountain Goat, commenting on my screenplay ZONED OUT

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                          There is so much I'd like to input on this, but I feel it would be wasted time. If you want Creative Freedom, write what you want. It's that simple. My managers in the past have always said, 'I will read anything you write. If I like it, I'll help develop it for the market'. Finding someone to believe in your writing ability is the first step. Deciding what to write is the second. I got my start in the thriller genre. After reading a action-adventure sample (a tentpole like yours), it was suggested to stick to action-adventure. Studios have a TON of action-adventure assignments floating around. And since I'm driven by 'make money-make movies', as long as I am getting paid to write, I don't care what's on the page. If no one wants to help sell the script, I'll film the damn thing myself.
                          2011 Screenwriting Goal: 15 pages a day.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                            Originally posted by Lucha Scribre View Post
                            There is so much I'd like to input on this, but I feel it would be wasted time. If you want Creative Freedom, write what you want. It's that simple. My managers in the past have always said, 'I will read anything you write. If I like it, I'll help develop it for the market'. Finding someone to believe in your writing ability is the first step. Deciding what to write is the second. I got my start in the thriller genre. After reading a action-adventure sample (a tentpole like yours), it was suggested to stick to action-adventure. Studios have a TON of action-adventure assignments floating around. And since I'm driven by 'make money-make movies', as long as I am getting paid to write, I don't care what's on the page. If no one wants to help sell the script, I'll film the damn thing myself.
                            I like your style, dude.


                            Can we get a ****ing Lebowski emoticon around here, already?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                              Originally posted by Mad Mat View Post
                              Which is why sales agents tend to only represent films that they know they can sell QUICKLY.


                              Exactly.

                              But here's a scenario: The film sales rep got into the business when horror was hot, and horror has continued to be a good seller for him/her.

                              The filmmaker looks at the market, and realizes that horror has been around for a while and the market may be saturated. So they make a contained thriller, because they believe that may be the next big thing: there are movies like BURIED and ARMORED and lots of interest in scripts in that genre. So making a contained thriller is based on good research.

                              The filmmaker takes their contained thriller to the sales agent, who says: "This isn't a horror movie! I can't sell this!" and maybe even wants you to do reshoots with a dude in a mask with a machete killing people.

                              The problem isn't that the film is a hard sell, it is that the sales agent is a victim of their experience (and we all are to some extent). The sales agent is unable to look at the film objectively as a product, and sees it through their filters. Their experience says horror films are an easy sell. Instead of looking at the market objectively and seeing that there are sales possibilities they have not considered, or that the market may be changing, or just considering that they may be wrong - they do what is easiest for them... even though that may be a mistake. And, as is human nature, the more of your research that shows contained thrillers may be the next big thing that you show them, the *stronger* they reject that genre.

                              Turning down a great non-commercial film is understandable, but sales agents often turn down a great *commercial* film because it isn't what they are used to.

                              Using the previous example of football agents, even in the field of NFL, I assume the agents scout potential clients knowing full well which teams would be interested in them, i.e. they know where to sell those potential stars.
                              They scout players - actively seeking the next big thing. A large part of their job is finding undiscovered talent... then selling that talent to some team for top dollar. You have to scout a lot of players to find the great ones.

                              Now I'm going to read the half million posts that have popped up since I last posted.

                              - Bill
                              Free Script Tips:
                              http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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                              • #45
                                Re: Writers should be the ones hip-pocketing reps !!!

                                Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                                If you get all of that out of a toilet seat my friend, well then that is one HELL of a toilet seat!
                                It's heated.

                                Writer T and Writer K.
                                This is why I failed all of those tests - too many letter people.

                                - Bill
                                Free Script Tips:
                                http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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